Optima V2 pistol issue(?) Fired primers hard to remove at times.

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Tallbald

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It's been several years since I've been able to shoot my beautiful black and stainless V2 pistol. At the last session however, I found myself having removal problems with the spent 209 Rios primers I was using. Shooting light to medium loads of Triple 7, with a thick waxed wool felt wad and 220 grain REAL pure lead bullets.
I actually had to carefully pry the lip of the primer up and use needle nose pliers to pull it from the primer recess. I used a jewelers loupe to examine the primer chamber and only saw a little roughness from factory machining. Reminded me of a chip scar from a chip maybe caught on a reamer used to finish size the chamber (I'm a tool and die maker by trade).
I'm wondering about carefully using 2000 grit emery cloth on a mandrel, followed by Mother's Mag Polish to lightly polish the primer chamber.
Thoughts please?
I truly enjoy this extremely accurate pistol. Shooting cloverleaf groups from a rest at 45 yards over and over is common. Scoped with a beautiful Weaver 2X pistol scope, this pistol is a fun range toy. Were I still a hunter, I have no doubt I'd harvest deer each and every season if I did my part.
Don
 
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I've never used those primers but would suspect that they are a bit on the large size if you have to pry them out.
Primers like CCI or Federal are what I use. Spent ones pretty much fall out if I tip my pistol up.
I guess you could clean up a few to see if that helps.
 
Are the primer bodies dirty, full of black soot, when you get them out? If so, you have a leakage issue and probably related to primer length, not diameter. If they are dirty after firing try using an o-ring in the primer pocket to help the nose end of the primer to seal. Most people using the small rubber o-rings get about 20-25 shots off one ring before the sooting issues returns. The o-rings are a super cheap fix.

I have a converted plug in my Optima V2 pistol, one that uses a vent liner and I don't have any primer sticking issues nor do I have any dirty primer bodies.
 
Someone here once suggested a q-tip, chucked in a drill, with metal polish on it, could be used to clean out the primer pocket. Ive got the same issue occasionally in my Optima pistol and my Accura. Both have Lehigh breech plugs and i use Fed 209a and CCI 209s. I polished out one plug a little bit but havent noticed an improvement yet, cuz ive been shooting another gun lately.
 
Excellent suggestions and thank to you all. I honestly hadn't considered overall length, but miking both diameter and length to compare to0 say, CCI or Winchester may reveal a difference. These Rios were bought on sale at a large chain sporting goods store some years back for I think, 2 cents each. Not uncommon in 2017. I also like the O-ring suggestion and if the problem persists after polishing carefully I'll head over to the local seal and gasket shop for rings.
Thanks again folks. Don
 
Oh. MrTom could you explain to me what a "vent liner" is, does and how a person makes one please? What's the benefit to a vent liner also? Thanks. Don
 
Oh. MrTom could you explain to me what a "vent liner" is, does and how a person makes one please? What's the benefit to a vent liner also? Thanks. Don

Factory plugs have a limited lifespan, mostly determined by the amount of shooting and the heft of the load. Once a plug 's flame hole, the small hole in the plug at the powder end of it, gets eroded too far and that hole opens up your accuracy will drop way off. A new plug will get everything back on track.... OR.... send the shot out plug to someone and have them drill it out on the powder end and tap it for a vent liner. PLugs can cost a few bucks. Vent li9ners are generally much harder steel and can last three or four times as long as a factory or replacement plug. The vent liners cost about $5-$6 each and are easy to remove and replace. The vent liners also come with a slightly larger flame hole so if you're shooting BH209 powder you're assured of a good ignition. The converted plug is great for all granulated powders, not so much the pellets. Honestly though, if you're shooting pellets you're using or getting about 40% of the gun's potential so I advise to switch if you're burning pellets regardless of the conversion to the plug or not.

The o-ring has nothing whatever to do with the plug conversion outside of helping to seal the primer and it's fire against leakage back past the primer body.....which is a leading cause of stuck primers. Yes, there is a remote chance the plug's primer pocket may be drilled tight, but the suggestions for opening it are good ones that do help if that is the case. All of the major primer makers use specs for their primer that are set by themselves so you might try 4 brands of primers and end up with 4 different issues. I'd try to find a friend that shoots trap and reloads hs own shotshells and ask if he has some primers from different makers that you can get three or four of each to try. Try them all with a fairly stiff load in that pistol to see which ones hang up and if any do not. Then check the primers for blackened bodies after firing. If primers pop right out but are black, get the o-rings and go from there.

PM Ronlaughlin here on the site about the conversion of your plug to using the vent liners. There are vendors that sell plugs made for your gun that have vent liners....Lehigh I believe has a plug that you can order and will screw right in and be ready to fire. Badgerridgeind.com sells the vent liner 4/$22.00. Ask for Tom. Great guy, great business.

And here's the link for the o-rings.... McMaster-Carr
 
lehigh vent liners are 10-32 with a "standard" counterbore that you would use for a flat head cap screw. I am not positive but I believe that it is 82 degrees.
 
Tallbald, call Tom at Badger and ask him if his liners fit a Lehigh....pretty certain they will.
 
Very helpful and informative. Thank you for clearly and thoroughly explaining this conversion. I like Mcmaster-Carr as well as MSC Direct for many things. I can mike the ID of the pocket and see what I need, unless someone chimes in here with a known already. I like experimenting with loads. Not uncommon for me to spend two hours at the range and only fire 20 rounds of loads (black powder) or reloads (cartridge) between loading, cleaning and trying the next combo.
Again, I sincerely appreciate the time spent here by all, sharing experience and thoughts.
Don
* oops. Just followed the link and see it's to a specific size that's needed rather than the O-ring section as a whole. Appreciate that. Don
 
I'm not familiar with that particular weapon but if it has a flash channel then find a drill bit of the appropriate size and ream out the carbon BY HAND. The purpose of the flash channel is to protect the primer from high pressure. Upon ignition the pressure rises in the barrel and begins to bleed into the flash channel. The volume of the flash channel is sized so the by the time the pressure in it builds to a point where the primers will bulge the bullet is clear of the muzzle and pressure drops to zero. When the volume of the flash channel is reduced by carbon the pressure builds too fast and the primer is deformed. This can also happen when the flash hole gets too large from gas cutting.
 
I'm not familiar with that particular weapon but if it has a flash channel then find a drill bit of the appropriate size and ream out the carbon BY HAND. The purpose of the flash channel is to protect the primer from high pressure. Upon ignition the pressure rises in the barrel and begins to bleed into the flash channel. The volume of the flash channel is sized so the by the time the pressure in it builds to a point where the primers will bulge the bullet is clear of the muzzle and pressure drops to zero. When the volume of the flash channel is reduced by carbon the pressure builds too fast and the primer is deformed. This can also happen when the flash hole gets too large from gas cutting.
Here is an article on cleaning the flash channel
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The picture retiredusn shows is a dandy for explaining things related to the plug. The help expand on my explanation of the plug conversion, imagine the flame channel being drilled out thru the entire plug. Then imagine a 3/8" X roughly 3/8 deep hole with a tapered bottom being drilled out at the pictures flash hole end with about 3/16 of the flame channel immediately below that hole tapped and a vent liner screwed in. The metal that factory plugs are made of is soft by comparison to the vent liner's steel which gives the liners much more shooting life.

The vent liner is removed for servicing the plug as per alternate's explaination. Badger industries has a wire to use for measuring the hole in the liner to determine wear from shooting. When the flame hole in the liner lets the wire pass thru its time to toss that liner and screw in a new one. Factory plugs arrive new with a flame hole at .028". The new liner has a flame hole at .030" which gives a boost to ignition when using a shot-shell reloading primer and the 3/8" recess in the plug face assures that powder is immediately available for ignition.

All of my CVA inline guns wear converted plugs. All of them shoot BH209 effectively without hang-fires or duds, regardless of the humidity or the temperature.
 

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