I think there's plenty of evidence that they sell fine as is. Not everyone had tender paws and if another grip design found its way to the gun there's be plenty that would step up and whine. Maybe instead contact Hogue and press them to design a fancy, smancy grip to replace the existing one. Or wear a padded glove. Or load it down. Of all the people I know who own these nice handguns the only ones I have heard gripe at all are those who insist on pounding out 300+ grain pills on a full charge of powder.
With all due respect, Mr. Tom, you have stated multiple times since......
1. I have been asking questions about the Optima V2 pistol prior to getting my own.
2. Since I have been posting about the pistol here at Modern Muzzleloading.
I can't recall the exact number of shots where you said that with your hunting load(s), the pain in your hand told you to stop shooting.
I base my comments vis-a-vis the design of the Optima V2's pistol grip on what I could intuit from reading your posts, and the posts of other men across the United States that own/owned the pistol.
To a man, they ALL stated the same thing online in their posts. Just used differing language to make their points.
These were posts that reached all the way back to the initial introduction of the Optima V2 pistol in the American market by CVA.
If someone with decades of shooting & hunting experience with rifles and handguns, like yourself (and many others) states that a particular hunting weapon hurts their hand from what most handgun shooters, including myself, would consider a mid-level recoil producing load; then quite frankly, I am GOING TO TAKE THEM AT THEIR WORD.
I am neither stupid, nor arrogant, nor egotistical. I have NO BONE IN THIS FIGHT. All I want is for EVERYONE that picks up an Optima V2 pistol is to have as pleasant a shooting experience as is possible, right from the start.
NOT have to purchase a shooting glove. NOT have to purchase an aftermarket grip that replaces a poorly designed grip that, eventually; regardless of the amount of propellant, the type of propellant, the weight of the projectile, or the number of shots taken, it HURTS.
3. My ONLY negative about the Optima V2 pistol, is the pistol grip, which I have yet to experience.
4. When I agreed to the trade for the Optima V2 pistol from MtMonkey, it was AFTER I had done my research online. I read everything I could find via the search engines available to me, INCLUDING all of your posts.
5. Those posts, primarily yours, because you seemed to have killed more deer with your Optima V2 pistol then anyone else I could find online, are what made me decide to make the trade with MtMonkey in the first place. PERIOD!!
6. At the time of the trade I was a few days shy of 66 years old. With osteoarthritis presenting itself, at that time, primarily in my shoulders. I had to look forward to my 80's, where I HOPED GOD would still allow me to be out in the forest hunting.
7. As an 80 year old, would I still want to be packing around a long arm, considering the fact that regardless of recoil distributing plates of plastic, P.A.S.T. pads, ambidextrous vests that can hold Sorbothane type pads, & or recoil pads on a rifle, it was a BETTER than 50/50 percentage that the osteoarthritis WAS NOT going to allow me the use of a shoulder-mounted arm.
8. Then I remembered something that I had read more than a decade ago on the White Muzzleloading website. Doc White had invented , and sold, a handful (50) of these totally FUNKY LOOKING two-handed, inline, percussion, .50 caliber, muzzleloading pistols. So, I went back, found the article, and read what he had to say. Then, not believing EVERYTHING I read, I called Doc White on the phone, and we discussed my physical issues. He was a real practicing physician for those that don't know. Retired last Christmas at 84.
Upshot of my conversation with Doc White, was that even a person who had little experience, or ability, to shoot a normal big bore, hard recoiling, centerfire handgun, COULD shoot a .50 caliber, muzzleloading, Javelina stocked pistol with heavy for caliber lead conicals, because of the addition of the single point tactical sling to the entire support system. As well as the VERY obvious fact that with two hands held far apart; with the forward, weak hand pushing AGAINST a small, stubby pistol grip that projects down from under the forearm; the strong hand pulling rearwards on the primary pistol grip; while the forearm of the trigger hand is held snug against the chest makes for an INCREDIBLY STABLE platform from which to shoot a heavy, big bore, muzzleloading pistol from.
9. Coincidentally, MtMonkey was offering his Optima V2 pistol for sale at this very same time. I asked Doc White if the Javelina, two-handed, dual pistol grips style stocks could be adapted to a break-action firearm. He replied yes, as he had done the conversion to a 12 gauge, break-action, centerfire shotgun because he had fallen down a steep flight of stairs, and torn his right rotator cuff ligaments. Which he declined to have surgery for, thus impeding his ability to shoulder a weapon right-handed.
10. Contacted MtMonkey on the forum here, made the trade straight across for a Thompson/Center Renegade Hunter rifle, and became the owner of a used CVA Optima V2 pistol. Which I have yet to put my hands on.
11. A month, or so, after MtMonkey shipped the pistol to Doc White, there was a discussion here on, I believe, the inline forum, regarding muzzle brakes. After reading Encore50A's posts about the LR Customs brakes that he had on his high velocity BH209 rifles, I did some research. Again, not believing EVERYTHING I read, I called LR Customs up on the phone, and spoke with Levi Reed.
12. Upshot of my conversation with Levi Reed was the decision to have him drive over to Doc White's home (20 minutes away), pick up my Optima V2 pistol (which was just sitting still waiting in a queue), take it back to his shop, thread the muzzle with 3/4"-24 threads, & install, fit, and time both a lead conical brake, and a sabot brake. At a cost of more than 1.5 times the pistol's retail worth.
EDIT: As a side note....
As far as I know, my Optima V2 pistol is the only muzzleloading pistol to have a LR Customs MZ REX2 muzzle brake installed on it. Might be another by now, I haven't talked to Levi Reed for a while. I do know FOR SURE that my pistol is the FIRST muzzleloading pistol to have a MZ REX2 muzzle brake installed on it.
13. And, after he was finished, Mr. Reed took the pistol back to Doc White's shop. Where it is currently out of the queue having the Javelina stocks fabricated, fitted, and finished. When all is said, and done, I will have spent nearly 4 times the pistol's worth making it into what I envision.
Which is a first class, .50 caliber, muzzleloading pistol capable of killing anything I intend to hunt for the balance of my life. However long that might be. Up to, and including, elk & moose, should the opportunity to hunt them ever present itself.
14. Personally, even without having yet to shoot it, I don't consider the Optima V2 pistol as it comes from the factory to be a first class hunting pistol. The action is rated to 400 grain bullets, and the heaviest bullet that anyone REALLY SEEMS TO WANT to pull the trigger on is a 240-250 grain .45 caliber bullet in a sabot, or a 240 grain Hornady Pennsylvania lead conical.
It is my opinion that unless the pistol is capable of being REASONABLY COMFORTABLY shot, from the factory without any modifications, with wide meplat lead conical bullets weighing AT LEAST 325 grains, then it cannot be considered to be a first class, .50 caliber muzzleloading hunting pistol.
15. Adding an aftermarket AR-15 style pistol grip that will accommodate a buffer tube style buttstock to the Optima V2 pistol makes it look as COOL AS CAN BE.
But, it just reinforces my opinion that the factory issued pistol grip leaves something to be desired. Because, most people are going this route because the grip hurts their hand. Sure, it offers more control of a pistol that cannot help but be muzzle heavy. As well as it provides for a very compact package if you hunt in tight places. And, the COOL FACTOR is off the charts.
16. Finally, Mr. Tom's hunting charge for his Optima V2 pistol is 63 grains by weight, 90 grains by volume of BH 209. Under 225 grain to 240 grain bullets. Now, I don't know what muzzleloading world that YOU LIVE IN, but the muzzleloading world that I live in considers a 90 grain charge in a .50 caliber rifle to be a substantial powder charge.
Remember that a .45/70 black powder cartridge used 70 grains of coarse black powder under a 405 grain lead bullet. And, it was capable of reaching out past 700 yards to kill efficiently in a Sharps rifle.
A 90 grain by volume charge of BH209 in a 15" barreled pistol is a STOUT LOAD. Anybody that says otherwise is lying to themselves.
So let us all stop kidding ourselves about this pistol. The factory grip hurts people's hands because it is poorly designed. Most shooters that buy the V2 pistol are used to shooting BH209 & Triple 777 in their inline rifles. They then transfer those same high energy loads over into the V2 pistol because the action is EXACTLY THE SAME as the action on a V2 rifle. And, from what I read here, at least BH209 does not much care for, vastly reduced powder charges like you can get away with when using regular black powder. Regardless of what is happening right now because of the shortages in components, it is my belief that most people purchasing an Optima V2 pistol automatically figure that BH209 is the propellant of choice. And, when their pet load hurts the palm of their hand after a few shots, they get angry & disallusioned.
As they should. Enough said.
