Overthinking Bullet Choices

[snapbang]

I have never lost a deer when I hit that target, no matter what kind of bullet I used.

exactly

 

[GM54-120]

exactly

No heart, no lungs and they dont go too terribly far. Although ive seen quite a few 100 yard death runs first. Even with a heart that looked like a bomb went off in it.

Ive only seen 2 things that drop them instantly every single time. Head shot and enough shock/trauma to the spine. Cant run when you cant move your legs.

 

[retrieverman]

I was trained as a Biology teacher.

The lungs work on negative pressure, and will collapse and not work properly when a hole is made in the ribcage allowing air to enter from the outside.

No animal can walk far without Oxygen in their blood.

A hole in the lungs tends to produce massive blood loss.

The middle of the ribcage is always my target, because of the above principles of body function.

I have never lost a deer when I hit that target, no matter what kind of bullet I used.


Where would you try to put the spear, if you were an ancient hunter hunting a woolly mammoth, and you were using a sharp rock on the end of a stick as your weapon?

I know for a fact that a that 280 lb buck hit with a double lung shot from a crossbow using a 100 gr 2 blade broadhead generally won’t make it 50 yards, because I’ve done it several times in the last few years. As a matter of fact, the furthest I’ve had a buck run in recent years was with a shot from a Parker 275 gr ballistic extreme. I got no blood, and he ended up going about 150 yards.

 

[mnoland30]

That was my issue with bullets, no blood trail. I used a 400 gr. pointed Precision Rifle boat tail bullets because I wanted more range and knockdown power for elk. The pointed bullet went in like a needle, and the pure lead expanded to over an inch and didn't exit. In the rocky country I hunt, I can't track an elk after they stop running. I now use Remington 405 gr. 45-70 bullets. Not as streamlined, but much more effective. So far, I've not needed a blood trail.

I use heavy 340 gr. bullets, even for deer. So far, I've never had to track one, even shooting at 200 yards. I've shot some of my best groups with bullets I made myself using Idaho Lewis' recommendations.

 

[JIMYJAC]

Been using the Hornady monoflex last few years. Groups best in my Accura, nice bullet and does the job. Love those xtp`s also but the group opens up after 50 yards. Lots of nice choices out there.

 

[GM54-120]

I used a 400 gr. pointed Precision Rifle boat tail bullets because I wanted more range and knockdown power for elk. The pointed bullet went in like a needle, and the pure lead expanded to over an inch and didn't exit

But PR Dead Centers are not pure lead. Not even the QTs are pure lead. They are both an alloy and the Dead Center is harder than the QTs.

Which PR bullet was offered in 400gr? They dont list one now?

 

[Widude]

Yeah, one can easily end up in the weeds talking endlessly about bullets specifics. We gotta agree, some are better choices than others, notably a FMJ compared to a soft point.

Once we get to a suitable hunting bullet, placement becomes more important. There can be factors relating to the cartridge itself. Take the 223 compared to the 308 for deer hunting, bullet selection with the 223 would be more critical. Another thing, different ammo, bullets, & loads will shoot differently, accuracy & such.

If for one like variety, no need for all of us to hunt with a 30-06 & 180 grain core-lok bullets.

 

[mckbcat2000]

Given the cost of everything else to hunt anymore unless you're doing a ton of practicing it's hard to sweat the cost of bullets in the grand scheme of things.

 

[idahoron]

Back when Hornady decided to stop making the Hornady 410 gr Great plains bullet. I was already trying to come up with a replacement. I had used the Hornady flat point bullet on several deer and to be honest I was not happy with them. They were probably the most accurate bullet I had ever shot. Both of these bullets came out of a buck I had shot.

While it can be argued that the bullet performed well because it mushroomed out and the animal was dead. I felt that it was too soft and it over expanded reducing the depth that it penetrated. Some guys like the bullet to stay in and put all the energy into the animal. Some like an exit hole with the last of the energy digging into the dirt and a blood trail on both sides of the animal. I fall into the last category.
If the bullet can not punch through a deer how could I trust it with penetrating an elk?

So I started to look for a replacement. I tried the Lee REAL, the Lyman great plains. And to be honest at that time I didn't have a lead hardness tester. If I were to test those bullets again I would do it a little different. Both the REAL and the Lyman didn't shoot well enough to make me want to test them more.
That was when I started to think about paper patching. My first paper patched bullets were tested in 2007. The Lee 500 S&W bullet, and the RCBS North South bullet were the two I started with. The Lee 500 S&W bullet quickly showed promise.

After seeing some of the groups I was getting I switched gears and started to try different alloy. That was where the 500 started to shine. My groups were sub 2" at 100 with a peep sight. Ya I had some that were better but as an average they were solid 2" groups.
2009 was the first year for me to hunt with the Lee 500 S&W bullet. I had tested it and tested it. I was testing groups, and water jugs, even wet news paper. I tried putting elk shoulders inside wet news paper. From what I was seeing the slightly hardened 500 bullet was a monster.
The first animal killed was a mature muledeer buck.

That same year a friend of mine also too a buck with his TC White Mt carbine and the Lee 500 S&W bullets.

The bullets plowed right through and the animals went straight to the ground. The WHOOOP that those bullets make is loud. The large wide Meplat send a shockwave through the animal.
That bullet for the next dozen years racked up an amazing number of animals. All of them were one shot kills. All of them fully penetrated the animal from ANY angle.
In 2012 I shot a calf elk. Again that one plowed trough, but that was not unexpected. In 2013 I had the chance to take a Large adult cow. The shot was 60 yards. I shot the cow high in the shoulder

The bullet crushed the shoulder.

The bullet went through the shoulder and was found in the flank.

That was the first bullet I had ever found. At 288 grains I was at first a little worried that maybe they were not as hard as I thought. That bullet crushed the shoulder and still plowed through 3 foot of elk.
Still I kept using it and my son and I put more game on the ground. I was selling a few and other guys were pounding game and the penetration was incredible.
Finally in 2020, 11 years after I started shooting them I found my second one. I shot this bull with my lee 500 S&W bullets.

It was a high shoulder shot that took out the shoulder and the spine. The bull hit the ground where he stood.

They started out at 458 grains and this one was at 454.

Those bullets have killed a truck load of Deer, antelope, and elk, for both my son and I. Like I said I have several friends and guys that I have sold bullets to that have also killed a lot of game with them.

I couldn't use a PRB. I just don't have the faith in them like others have. I also have NO faith in the Hornady 385 gr bullet.
I have taught a lot of guys to paper patch the Lee 500 S&W bullet. Those that have taken game will never use anything else. They are a dang good bullet on game. What they do after they hit hair is what you can count on.