Probably a silly question - Fast twist, heavy boolits...

[zara_puppy]

The faster twist rates in the Whites shoot heavy boolits better. Better stabilization. I get that. But is it really the weight of the bullet or is it the length of the bullet? For instance if I'm shooting a 400+ grain pure lead bullet that's "X" long, and I shoot a, say, all copper bullet that is the exact same build, length, powder, etc., and assuming wind and temps aren't a factor, will the lighter copper bullet perform the same (from a paper punching standpoint) or is weight really the factor - or - is it a combination of both? Sorry if this has been asked before.

Just a curiosity thing.

 

[Sideshow]

The faster twist rates in the Whites shoot heavy boolits better. Better stabilization. I get that. But is it really the weight of the bullet or is it the length of the bullet? For instance if I'm shooting a 400+ grain pure lead bullet that's "X" long, and I shoot a, say, all copper bullet that is the exact same build, length, powder, etc., and assuming wind and temps aren't a factor, will the lighter copper bullet perform the same (from a paper punching standpoint) or is weight really the factor - or - is it a combination of both? Sorry if this has been asked before.

Just a curiosity thing.

IMO Length is the biggest thing . Pretty hard to have one without the other !!!!

 

[michiganmuzzy]

It's length that requires fast twist to stabilize. Pretty sure you could make yer bullits out of aluminum and they would shoot well from a 'fast' twist for caliber.

 

[Sideshow]

It's length that requires fast twist to stabilize. Pretty sure you could make yer bullits out of aluminum and they would shoot well from a 'fast' twist for caliber.

Muzzy for President !!!!! Lol !!!!!

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Muzzy for President !!!!! Lol !!!!!

No thank you! I already have a job that I don't like.

 

[Idaholewis]

The faster twist rates in the Whites shoot heavy boolits better. Better stabilization. I get that. But is it really the weight of the bullet or is it the length of the bullet? For instance if I'm shooting a 400+ grain pure lead bullet that's "X" long, and I shoot a, say, all copper bullet that is the exact same build, length, powder, etc., and assuming wind and temps aren't a factor, will the lighter copper bullet perform the same (from a paper punching standpoint) or is weight really the factor - or - is it a combination of both? Sorry if this has been asked before.

Just a curiosity thing.

As others have stated, Length is the Main factor in Stability, With Length comes X amount of weight With that Said, I have shot Several different Bullets, in Several Different Rifles that Theoretically Should NOT have worked according to the Math? But they DID! With some being EXCEPTIONALLY Good! The thing to remember is Bullet Length/Stability becomes MUCH MORE of a Factor at longer Ranges.

Example being, You shoot X Bullet at 100 Yards with OUTSTANDING results, You move on out to 200 yards and accuracy is stil Decent, You move out to 300 yards and things turn BAD? The bullet is getting Worse the Farther it Travels, eventually tumbling and might be seen “Key Holed” (Sideways) Through the Target.

Let’s say you have a 1:28 Twist, Optimum Stability is Calling for a 1” Bullet that Weighs 460-480 Grains, But you would like to try a Bullet that is .80-.85 in length and Weighs 400 Grains, The Shorter bullet will VERY LIKELY Shoot STELLAR for you out to 300 Yards, Maybe farther? There will be a Point where it will Start to Act up, Where the “Called for” Bullet of 1”long, 480 Grains would Stil be Flying BEAUTIFUL on out to Say 800-1,000 Yards

The above are Numbers/Examples, NOTHING takes place of actual Field Testing a Chosen Bullet! Get out there, and Learn how to Drive your Chosen Bullet

 

[45-70]

IMO Length is the biggest thing . Pretty hard to have one without the other !!!!

length but with that comes weight

 

[Confederate rifleman]

But then you have the copper bullets. Same length, but lighter weight. Matters not though. Length to diameter determines twist requirements.

 

[45-70]

it is not always that way though ,

 

[zara_puppy]

Interesting. While length is the primary factor I wonder about momentum. Not forward momentum, but revolutionary momentum. I would think that at muzzle, both bullets would spin at the same rate. However, once up to speed the heavier bullet would be rotating faster down range because the momentum of the spin with the heavier bullet would make it harder to slow down. Spinning faster through the flight the heavy bullet would be less susceptible to upset.

I'm about the farthest thing from a physicist as there is, but again, just a curiosity thing. Don't know that I'll ever shoot at a critter with the White much farther than 100 yards - but lately I've been messing with a couple of other rifles out to 200+. Then you go shoot the White at 100 to get ready for ML season and you begin to wonder. Hmmm....

Now that I can get replacement nipples (I was afraid I'd shoot out the flash hole and not be able to get a replacement plug) I can start playing with the white out to 200. Maybe more.

 

[FredB]

As others have stated, Length is the Main factor in Stability, With Length comes X amount of weight With that Said, I have shot Several different Bullets, in Several Different Rifles that Theoretically Should NOT have worked according to the Math? But they DID! With some being EXCEPTIONALLY Good! The thing to remember is Bullet Length/Stability becomes MUCH MORE of a Factor at longer Ranges.

Example being, You shoot X Bullet at 100 Yards with OUTSTANDING results, You move on out to 200 yards and accuracy is stil Decent, You move out to 300 yards and things turn BAD? The bullet is getting Worse the Farther it Travels, eventually tumbling and might be seen “Key Holed” (Sideways) Through the Target.

Let’s say you have a 1:28 Twist, Optimum Stability is Calling for a 1” Bullet that Weighs 460-480 Grains, But you would like to try a Bullet that is .80-.85 in length and Weighs 400 Grains, The Shorter bullet will VERY LIKELY Shoot STELLAR for you out to 300 Yards, Maybe farther? There will be a Point where it will Start to Act up, Where the “Called for” Bullet of 1”long, 480 Grains would Stil be Flying BEAUTIFUL on out to Say 800-1,000 Yards

The above are Numbers/Examples, NOTHING takes place of actual Field Testing a Chosen Bullet! Get out there, and Learn how to Drive your Chosen Bullet

Is there a chart, or math formula, to figure what length/weight of lead bullet should shoot best with what caliber and rate of twist?

 

[Sideshow]

Is there a chart, or math formula, to figure what length/weight of lead bullet should shoot best with what caliber and rate of twist?

Actually i know of 1 for big lead conicals on their site , Montana Bullets . They cast their bullets too hard IMO but their chart is pretty nice . I do wish it was all inclusive but its not .

 

[Idaholewis]

Is there a chart, or math formula, to figure what length/weight of lead bullet should shoot best with what caliber and rate of twist?

There are several out there, the one i use the most is JBM Stability Calculator, it’s super easy to use, and Fun to tinker around with Numbers and Twists

https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

As you tinker around with the Calculator above, remember this below

Stability
The Miller stability value. It should be between 1.3 and 2.0 to ensure stabilty (the military uses 1.5).

 

[GM54-120]

I use JBM and kwk. If both say its stable you can be pretty certain it will be. Sometimes stuff that is just a little low actually works too. Might not always be for long range if you are a little low.

http://kwk.us/twist.html