PURE Lead VS 20-1 Alloy

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Idaholewis

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I shot my new Accurate Mold #44-361L .45 Cal Paper Patch Bullet a Few Days ago, Cast of PURE Lead, Accuracy was Ok for Open Sights, But i felt it should have Been better. Anyway, I Re-Grouped and Headed back out to Re-Test this Morning, I shot a Group of Pure Lead, and a Group of the Same Bullet Cast of 20-1 Alloy

The Video isn’t that Great, The Snow Bank Behind my Target is Melting away and is Now just below the Black Bull, This makes seeing the The Bullet Holes a Bit difficult

3 Shots, Bullet Cast of CERTIFIED PURE LEAD, You can see the Group from my last outing right next to this one, just covered and Spray painted. Today’s Results were nearly a Mirror of the Last outing, and this morning was Reduction in Powder Charge, and i Went to a Thinner Tracing Paper, But as you can see it didn’t make any difference. These Groups are Not horrible for Open sights, But i knew that my Gun, and Myself were Capable of Better


Here is the 3 Shot Group of the EXACT Same Bullet above, Except these were Cast of 20-1 Alloy
 

edmehlig

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Things like this can drive a guy nuts trying to determine what/how to get the most out of his rifle and what to use for hunting/target shooting etc. Again, Lew thanks for your time and effort. You can tell from the video you were out there EARLY in the morning shooting. Most of us would probably be on their first cup of coffee at that time. :D
 

Sideshow

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This is my New Bullet, I took Accurate Molds #44-345P and had Tom Lengthen JUST the Nose, My New Bullet is #44-361L, it is 1” Long

Welcome back Lewis !!!
Well this PROVES that some barrels Need the harder alloy to shoot their Best !!! This is a well known Fact in many forms of shooting . Good Job !!! Some dont know this and others Should with any realtime experiance thats well spent .
In my 300 mag Browning i must change the Boss barrel tuner/muzzlebrake settings to compensate for bullet specifics also even shooting the same loads . There IS a difference in harmonics in the barrel , soft vs harder bullet !!! With a barrel tuner i can tune that out pretty well . Without a tuner you get what You got here . Target guys Should Know all about this ....

So much for some's "theory's"......
Experiance will Only teach those Willing to Learn ........
 
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James Sparhawk

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Sep 23, 2019
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This is my New Bullet, I took Accurate Molds #44-345P and had Tom Lengthen JUST the Nose, My New Bullet is #44-361L, it is 1” Long

I am getting frustrated with my round ball groups ever since I started casting my own. But, yesterday I finally shot a 1 inch, 5 shot group at 50 yards. Next, I will be stepping out to 100 yards. Congratulations on your new bullet and very, very impressive group, wow!
 

ihookem

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Feb 12, 2020
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Maybe the 20/1 made for a little bigger dia. bullet and made it shoot better.
 
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Ninering62

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Aug 20, 2019
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This is my New Bullet, I took Accurate Molds #44-345P and had Tom Lengthen JUST the Nose, My New Bullet is #44-361L, it is 1” Long

Its wonderful 2 C yer posts in MML again. Now you truly see how much you are a large part of this very foundation, but you & everything you contribute are the cohesive threads that bind our awesome community. It would be a joy & honor to shake hands, burn 1 or 2 & pull a trigger or 3 with you one day. Kind regards Much respect & gratitude always
 

Idaholewis

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Things like this can drive a guy nuts trying to determine what/how to get the most out of his rifle and what to use for hunting/target shooting etc. Again, Lew thanks for your time and effort. You can tell from the video you were out there EARLY in the morning shooting. Most of us would probably be on their first cup of coffee at that time. :D
Right on My Friend! It is my opinion that The Softer Lead Bullet is a Better Choice For Hunting, At Blackpowder Muzzleloader Velocities that is, Pure Lead Will Mushroom, Giving better Terminal Performance. An Alloy Bullet like this 20-1 Stuff is NOT gonna do much, if any Mushrooming, Just punch a Hole Through

For Target Shooting the Alloy Bullet is KING, I was just Talking to Dave Gullo in Buffalo Arms about this a Week or so ago, I asked him if he knew of ANYONE that Shot a Pure Lead Bullet in Competition? His answer was NO, That ALL of the Serious Competitors he Knows Shoots an Alloy Bullet
 

Buttonbuck

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Wondering if you all can tell me what is BH and ratios of dental lead, those foils on the XRay negatives? I have collected about 30 lb of ingots from my dentist over the years sadly he went digital a couple years back.
 

Dave951

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Jun 27, 2019
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Right on My Friend! It is my opinion that The Softer Lead Bullet is a Better Choice For Hunting, At Blackpowder Muzzleloader Velocities that is, Pure Lead Will Mushroom, Giving better Terminal Performance. An Alloy Bullet like this 20-1 Stuff is NOT gonna do much, if any Mushrooming, Just punch a Hole Through

For Target Shooting the Alloy Bullet is KING, I was just Talking to Dave Gullo in Buffalo Arms about this a Week or so ago, I asked him if he knew of ANYONE that Shot a Pure Lead Bullet in Competition? His answer was NO, That ALL of the Serious Competitors he Knows Shoots an Alloy Bullet
We do in North South Skirmish Association competition with Civil War guns. Alloy is not a happening thing with minies. A minie bullet must be pure as possible since the rifling is so shallow. Alloy does sometimes work in some of the breech loaders like a Sharps or Smith.
 

Idaholewis

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Lewis,
I know in the past you shot a lot of 40-1- alloy. What made you decide on a harder 20-1 ratio and do you think your going to continue with it at least for target shooting ?
Sax, This 20-1 Alloy isn’t new to me, I have Been Shooting it For 3-4 years or So, My reasoning is Advice from Dave Gullo, and Lee Shaver LONG Ago as a GOOD Target Bullet Alloy.

My reasoning for 40-1 Was to Remedy/Solve the Problem of Grease Groove Bullets loosening as they are Pushed down the Bore, Yet stil have a Bullet Soft Enough to Hopefully Expand in Game. I was having SERIOUS troubles With Pure Lead GG Bullets in my Fast Twist Bullet Barrels, They would “Strip out/Give up” about Halfway Down the Bore, and by the Time i hit the Powder Charge the Bullet was Loose, Questionable if it would Hold? This doesn’t always Happen, A good example yesterday, My Dad and i Shot his .54 Cal with my Lyman Plains Bullet Cast of PURE Soft Lead, They held The Bore just Fine, But his Rifle is a 1:48 Twist. The Problem is more Common in Faster Bullet Twist Barrels (The Soft Lead Strips Out). Maybe a Spin Jag would Help some, but i kinda Doubt it? Anyway, My Solution was to go to a Slightly Harder Bullet to COMBAT the Above. 40-1 is something i can Easily Purchase already Made, i chose to go that Route instead of Mixing my own and Possibly messing up a Batch of Lead. I really Wish they Made an Alloy Between Pure lead, and 40-1 That a Guy could Purchase, But they Don’t that I know of? 40-1 will Hold the Bore ROCK SOLID, and 40-1 Alloy Has Shot REALLY Good for me

I tinker with ALL of it, I think PURE LEAD, or as close as possible to it is the Best option for Hunting at Real Blackpowder Muzzleloader Velocities, Due to it ROLLING BACK in a Mushroom Ball (Better Terminal Performance)

For the Most part i prefer an Alloy Bullet for Target/Bench Shooting, But That’s NOT ALWAYS the Case either, I have some DARN GOOD Shooting Pure Lead Loads as well. Such as the Swaged Cupped Base PP Bullets i Get From BACO, A few of them Shoot AWESOME for me! The .444-400s in my .45s, and the .492-450s in my .50 Cals
 

Idaholewis

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Wondering if you all can tell me what is BH and ratios of dental lead, those foils on the XRay negatives? I have collected about 30 lb of ingots from my dentist over the years sadly he went digital a couple years back.
I have not actually Tested it in my Cabin Tree Lead Hardness Tester, So i Wouldn’t know Hands on? I have been Told it was Pure Lead, But i have also heard that it is NOT? I cannot remember the Sources i heard this From? If i had a Piece (A few Bullets) i could tell you Quickly what it is
 

Saxtonyoung

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Jul 7, 2017
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Thanks for the info Lewis, your video defiantly prove your point. I also understand your thinking on stripping the bullet when loading in a fast twist barrel but not sure how that applies to PP bullets. My thinking is that a harder bullet is fine but I have sized my PP bullets to more of a slip fit for fear of tearing the paper in the loading process.
 

Sideshow

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Sax, This 20-1 Alloy isn’t new to me, I have Been Shooting it For 3-4 years or So, My reasoning is Advice from Dave Gullo, and Lee Shaver LONG Ago as a GOOD Target Bullet Alloy.

My reasoning for 40-1 Was to Remedy/Solve the Problem of Grease Groove Bullets loosening as they are Pushed down the Bore, Yet stil have a Bullet Soft Enough to Hopefully Expand in Game. I was having SERIOUS troubles With Pure Lead GG Bullets in my Fast Twist Bullet Barrels, They would “Strip out/Give up” about Halfway Down the Bore, and by the Time i hit the Powder Charge the Bullet was Loose, Questionable if it would Hold? This doesn’t always Happen, A good example yesterday, My Dad and i Shot his .54 Cal with my Lyman Plains Bullet Cast of PURE Soft Lead, They held The Bore just Fine, But his Rifle is a 1:48 Twist. The Problem is more Common in Faster Bullet Twist Barrels (The Soft Lead Strips Out). Maybe a Spin Jag would Help some, but i kinda Doubt it? Anyway, My Solution was to go to a Slightly Harder Bullet to COMBAT the Above. 40-1 is something i can Easily Purchase already Made, i chose to go that Route instead of Mixing my own and Possibly messing up a Batch of Lead. I really Wish they Made an Alloy Between Pure lead, and 40-1 That a Guy could Purchase, But they Don’t that I know of? 40-1 will Hold the Bore ROCK SOLID, and 40-1 Alloy Has Shot REALLY Good for me

I tinker with ALL of it, I think PURE LEAD, or as close as possible to it is the Best option for Hunting at Real Blackpowder Muzzleloader Velocities, Due to it ROLLING BACK in a Mushroom Ball (Better Terminal Performance)

For the Most part i prefer an Alloy Bullet for Target/Bench Shooting, But That’s NOT ALWAYS the Case either, I have some DARN GOOD Shooting Pure Lead Loads as well. Such as the Swaged Cupped Base PP Bullets i Get From BACO, A few of them Shoot AWESOME for me! The .444-400s in my .45s, and the .492-450s in my .50 Cals
Lewis , Doc Whites powerpunch bullets he used to offer for hunting are about 40 to 1 too . (98%lead 2%tin)
Im also glad you clarified my mix up on the pure vs harder shrinkage thing . Didnt mean to share my confusion and goof anybody up . Obviously my mind was on the eggs i scrambled this mornin and got mixed up in em too.....🙃
 

Idaholewis

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Lewis , Doc Whites powerpunch bullets he used to offer for hunting are about 40 to 1 too . (98%lead 2%tin)
Im also glad you clarified my mix up on the pure vs harder shrinkage thing . Didnt mean to share my confusion and goof anybody up . Obviously my mind was on the eggs i scrambled this mornin and got mixed up in em too.....🙃
I remember Ed telling me about Doc White Doing this, Makes a Shinier Bullet, and you get Better Fill out :lewis:
 

edmehlig

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Yep, that's exactly what Doc said 2% Tin was used in their bullets. Question is does that make it 40-1? I've seen some game harvested with White's bullets and they expanded just fine. Maybe they did not expand as much as Pure Lead, but they did its job.
 
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