Question for a new Accurate Mold before I place my order.

Discussion in 'Bullet Casting' started by Offshore, Nov 29, 2019.

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  1. Nov 29, 2019 #1

    Offshore

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    Hello all, hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving. I'm new to casting muzzleloader bullets. . .have plenty experience with centerfire handguns and rifles, but starting to take an interest with my sidelocks. I'm going to place an order with Tom over at Accurate Bullet Molds for three new molds. Two for my .44 Mags and one for my muzzleloader. My question is; I have read conflicting articles and forum threads in regards to the lube grooves and obturation of the bullet - round vs. square. . .and which is prefered/why? You guys that are in the know in regards to this subject please fill me in. Thank you very much.
     
  2. Nov 29, 2019 #2

    Idaholewis

    Idaholewis

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    I shoot all types, And I’ve had just as good of luck with 1 vs the other

    Here is what i call an “Inset” Lube Groove, I tend to Favor this style for no Real reason, The bearing Surface of this Bullet is the Actual Body of the Bullet itself, if that makes Sense?
    [​IMG]

    And here is what i call an “Exterior Band Lube Groove” The bearing surface of this Bullet is obviously gonna be the Bands
    [​IMG]

    Again, i tend to favor the “inset” Lube Groove, I feel like they Hold the Bore a bit Snugger, And i just like the idea of The Bearing Surface Being the Bullet Body. As for accuracy, They both shoot EXCEPTIONALLY well, I have had STELLAR Luck with both types. The bottom (Exterior Bands) is more popular with Muzzleloaders, and Most go with a Taper Design. But for us that size our Bullets none of that even Matters. I shoot more of the Bottom (Exterior Band) Type than anything, i just had 3 New Steel Bullet molds made by Tom @ Accurate, And just got the .54 Today :) The 3 i just had made are ALL the Bottom Type, They Shoot DARN GOOD!

    This is a Bottom (Exterior Band) type, This is one of my Favorite .50 Caliber Bullets, i would put it up against ANY other .50 Cal Bullet, this is my Copy of the Bullshop .504-460
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Nov 29, 2019 #3

    Idaholewis

    Idaholewis

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    What Caliber? And Twist Rate?
     
  4. Nov 30, 2019 #4

    Offshore

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    It is going to be a 45 caliber in a 1:28 or 1:30 twist for 300/325 grian bullets, but here is the kicker. . . I'm on the fence on weather I'm going to send a barrel (I have 3, 45 cal. T/C Hawken barrels) off to Mr. Hoyt for a "slight bore/rifling adjustment" to a faster twist staying as close to the .45 cal. diameter as possible -OR- dropping dime and having Rice cut the barrel I want. I've read many pros/cons about Hoyt and his craftmanship (more PROS than cons for sure), but do I want to roll the dice and possibly not have the shooter barrel I'm wanting??? I enjoy shooting A LOT and I'm solely a hunter, but I also demand precision accuracy in all my firearms or they find new homes. I just need to figure out how far down the sidelock rabbit hole I want to go?!?!?

    Back to the new bullet mold. . .pending on which route I go with barrel in hand, is when I will have a mold made. I was just interested to know if there was any validity to the round vs. squared lube grooves and obturation of the bullet. Thanks for your insight, Lweis. It's much appreciated.
     
  5. Nov 30, 2019 #5

    Idaholewis

    Idaholewis

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    He wouldn’t be able to just Change the Twist, In order to stay .45 He will need to Bore it out and use what is called a Liner. The liner he installs will be Whatever Twist you Choose? Below is an example, I’m not sure if Bobby Hoyt buys his Barrel liners from an outsource, or makes them himself?

    http://www.romanorifle.com/22601.html
     
  6. Dec 1, 2019 #6

    Offshore

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    Interesting. . .I did not know that is how the process works. Sounds like to me, if I wanted to have a ."45?" bore at whatever twist, it is very possible. Any dealings with Romano Rifles? This is something I'm going to look a little further into.
     
  7. Dec 1, 2019 #7

    Idaholewis

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    I have not used Romano, I know nothing about them? I just posted as an Example, i knew they offered the Liner Service. I would check in with Them and find out Details? But also Remember that Bobby Hoyt does Barrel Liners as well, And he is Spoken VERY HIGHLY of across the WWW on Every forum i know of

    Here are a few of the Most Common Re-bores as examples, Most folks with a Rough Pitted .45 Bore would go up to .50 Cal, and a Rough/Pitted .50 Bore would go up to .54 Cal

    Let’s say you have a Nice .50 Cal with Strong Bore (no Pitting) and would like something Different? You could Re-bore up as close as .52 Cal, But if the Bore is Rough/Pitted it would Likely need to go up to .54 in order to Get rid of ALL Pitting/Fully cleaned up

    Then you have the Option of having a Same Caliber Barrel Liner put in, To whatever Twist you Choose. The good in this that i see, Is your Factory Caliber Stamp stays true :lewis: And you get whatever Twist you Choose.

    One more thing to Remember, You might Price a Brand new Barrel and See if the Liner is actually the Best option to go? Depending on the Cost of the Liner, you might be better off Having a New Barrel made? Do some Checking Around! The above should get you going :lewis:
     
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  8. Dec 1, 2019 #8

    GM54-120

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    If i was going through the expense of reboring, barrel liner or a new 45cal barrel it would NOT be a 1-28 or 1-30. It would be a 1-20, 1-22 or a 1-24. While a 300-350gr is fine in a 1-28 its also fine in a 1-20 and the 1-20 is more flexible. 50cal or 54cal sure, a 1-28 is fine but not ideal for a 45cal.
     
  9. Dec 1, 2019 #9

    Sideshow

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    Boy did i EVER NEED TO READ THIS !!! I got my old barrel from a bk---92 that was a gift from my folks and got ruined !!! Its between a 54 and a 58 now . I wouldnt mind a 58 with 1 in 28 or so !!! What twist would be best lewis ??? I respect your opinion !!!
     
  10. Dec 1, 2019 #10

    Idaholewis

    Idaholewis

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    With the OP Talking a Bullet in the 300-325 Grain Range, 1:28-1:30 will do well there.

    I personally would go 1:20 Twist, That is coming from my hands on Experience with my Rice 1:20 (one of, if not THE most accurate Muzzleloader i own, have ever owned) And my Old Knight Mountaineer 1:20 Twist.

    That being said, my Green Mountain LRH Barrel in 1:30 Twist has Proven itself OVER N OVER, I have it All over my YouTube Channel with a Wide array of Bullet Weights/Lengths, From 188 Grains, to 485 Grains. My 1:30 LRH is a FLAT OUT Awesome Shooting Barrel, I shot Ed’s Lyman Gould Hollow Point 3 Shots in a 1/2” at 107 Yards, and his Solid Gould in .95” at 107 Yards.

    I love my 1:30 Twist Green Mountain LRH (I have 3 of them :)) But My Rice 1:20 Twist Definitely edges them out overall
     
  11. Dec 1, 2019 #11

    Idaholewis

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    It is my understanding through reading others posts that Bobby Hoyt won’t do inline Barrels, or Don’t like to? You might try this Romano outfit i linked above, they might?

    With a .58 Cal for Bullets, i would go no faster than 1:32 and Shoot the 440 Grain Lee REAL
     
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  12. Dec 2, 2019 #12

    GM54-120

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    I look at what are the common twists for 45/70. 1-20 and 1-22 are the most common by far. After all a 45cal ML barrel is really nothing more than a 45/70 barrel. .450ish lands and .458ish grooves.

    The majority of modern 45/70s are made to shoot a 300gr to 405gr bullet. The majority of off the shelf ammo falls in that range and is not very hot either. Quite a bit is similar in MV as a 45cal ML. Lots of the 405gr stuff isnt even breaking 1500fps. Ive owned at least 3 in the 1-28 to 1-30 range and would not buy another if i can get a faster twist.

    Ive shot some great groups with the slower twists and Mr Miller did well at Friendship with his 1-30 but he like so many have settled on a 1-20 or even a 1-18. No real need for a 1-18 though unless you want to shoot some really long bullets.
     
  13. Dec 3, 2019 at 3:59 AM #13

    52Bore

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    Square grooves are really slightly tapered so the bullet will drop out of the mold easily.
    IMO - I don’t see a difference, depth is probably more important.
    I also make my molds (Tom at accurate has duplicated) like Paul Jones told me how he made his. Paul was the best mold maker in the last 4 decades, he stopped a few years ago -health.
    Good luck
     
  14. Dec 3, 2019 at 9:01 AM #14

    Offshore

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    I couldn't agree with you more in regards to a .45 cal ML being like a standard .45/70 load. With 300/350 grain bullets they are very simular. One of my favorite rifles I have is a Ruger No.1 in .45/70. This loaded with a "nice" douse of VV N-130 and my 330gr. GC cast bullet, it is pushing 2300FPS and deadly accurate out to 150 yds., then O'le Man Gravity takes over and you'd better know your dope. But I love that rifle!!!

    Tom/Accurate Molds has a bullet that I would really like to try, but I'm going to modify his design just a bit. I really prefer 4 driving bands on a ML bullet and this mold/bullet has that, I'm just going to mod the crim groove into a lube groove and have the depth of all 3 lube grooves taken .008 to .010 deeper than his design. Just have to get my barrel work completed inorder to make my bullet mold choice.
     
  15. Dec 3, 2019 at 12:01 PM #15

    Idaholewis

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    Which Accurate Mold # do you plan to go off of?
     
  16. Dec 3, 2019 at 3:43 PM #16

    GM54-120

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    I actually have a 45/70 CF barrel on my Savage MLII. Its a 1-22 twist Pacnor 8 land and it made a great ML barrel. Lotta people dont know this but McGowen does make octagon barrel blanks. They are quite expensive vs a round blank though. You can get a GMB cut rifled blank cheaper.
     
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  17. Dec 3, 2019 at 4:04 PM #17

    Sideshow

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    Thanks Lewis , but actually i was thinkin a 535 to 570 gr bullet . I WANT a runaway freight train for thick river bottoms and such . With a big fat flat metplat !!! DRT !!! Tracking there in that shi#tangle is a nightmare !!! Its thick !!! But the bucks are BIG and cover 75 yds in 3 or 4 bounds it seems !!! Both shoulders busted is BEST !!! I'll deal with the recoil !!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 4:12 PM
  18. Dec 3, 2019 at 6:23 PM #18

    GM54-120

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    54cal 1-28 shoots a 580gr conical no problem at all....Other than the sever rattling your noggin will endure.
     
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  19. Dec 4, 2019 at 2:05 AM #19

    Offshore

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    If I had my way and lived in a perfect world (lol), I would like to be able to shoot the #45-310P with my mods. I feel this would make a great hunting bullet. I shoot a bullet very simular to this design but in .432"/255gr. GC from my 445 SuperMag at 1685 FPS that is an absolute deer/hog whopper-stopper! So for starters, I would like to give the #45-310P a whirl.
     
  20. Dec 4, 2019 at 2:47 AM #20

    Idaholewis

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    I like it!! Looks like a Good one, Gotta Love a nice Wide Meplat for Hunting :lewis: It looks similar to my 395 Grain 50 Cal Bullet i Had Done last year

    [​IMG]

    #50-385M
    [​IMG]

    #50-385M In Acton :lewis:
     

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