Realistic range

[kbf1961]

Im new to muzzeloading here in Western Washington. I am going on a Elk hunt here next fall and trying to put a rig together and get proficient between now and next fall.. We have to use open sights and open ignition. That being said, Im leaning heavily towards traditional sidelock .54 cal patched round ball.
Ive never hunted with open sights. Ive been hunting with modern scoped centerfire for years . What is a realistic upper limit range for open sights with old eyes? LOL
From what Im able to gather .54cal PRB can be quite accurate to 150 yds which Im thinking is the upper limit for open sights.
Thanks ,Kevin

 

[cayuga]

I am another old eyed individual. And I shoot a .54 caliber with round ball when I hunt, most the time. I would say your on range accuracy practice will be a very good indication of what you should attempt in the wild. A .54 with round ball is a lethal weapon but it is also limited, face it, because of ballistics and energy. Personally ... I would set my outside limit to 100 yards for elk. They have a bigger kill zone then deer so I think I could be sure I could place a bullet in the vitals. Also try and get that ball as powerful as you can. Most my .54 calibers shoot good with 80-110 grains of powder. Your rifle and the range will tell you how hard you can push the thing.

Now I understand there are cases of people with round ball shooting much further distances. Good for them. I want a solid, body damaging, vital organ smashing hit. That is where I get my 100 yard limit.

 

[kbf1961]

Is that based on the open sights, PRB ballistics or eyes? Am I accurate in my assertion that based on legal limitations, old eyes, sidelock .54cal round ball is just as good as any of the other modern inline options?

 

[GM54-120]

At 150 yards a 54cal PRB is down to less than 500fpe even with a 120gr load of powder. Thats not my idea of an ethical elk load.

 

[kbf1961]

At 150 yards a 54cal PRB is down to less than 500fpe even with a 120gr load of powder. Thats not my idea of an ethical elk load.

No, that is not my idea of an ethical elk load either. That is exactly the kind of info Im looking for. Thank you. I understand there is so many variables to bullett/ball ballistics . Where can I get some info on different muzzleloader projectile ballistics?

 

[Browndogz]

I like to understand someones expectations. What general area and conditions are expected?

 

[03mossy]

would a full bore conical be an option or are you dead set on a roundball?

 

[kbf1961]

would a full bore conical be an option or are you dead set on a roundball?

Leaning towards traditional but, that is all. Ultimately I want to put elk in the freezer. Havent bought anything yet. Havent even shot a muzzleloader yet.... LOL. Looking at a pretty steep learning curve.

 

[cayuga]

I can remember a post of a different forum. The person was telling about his moose hunt. He had a .54 caliber Renegade and was loaded with a round ball. He shot a moose in the heart, the moose walked a very short distance and then fell over dead. Then he added the kicker ... the moose was 160 yards plus away. I personally would not shoot at a larger member of the deer family such as a moose or elk at anything over 100 yards, with a .54 caliber patched round ball. Although if you practice and feel you can place that ball ... it might penetrate and enter a vital organ. I would suggest some excellent tracking skills.

Years ago I set my patched round ball limit at 125 yards. But as I grew older and my eye sight changed, I was no longer happy with the groups I COULD ACCOMPLISH at distances past 100 yards. So I now limit myself to 75 yards. Where I hunt a long shot is 50 yards, and the majority under 35 yards. So I feel perfectly safe at those distances. I even bear hunted with a patched round ball. (never got a shot).

If you're a good shot and can place your shot, do some testing. Penetration tests ... water jugs, etc. See what kind of penetration you get. Then decide for yourself how far you think your range is. But 150 ... I too feel that's too far for a round ball. Unless I was shooting something like a .58 or .62 caliber. And even then I would think about that kind of distance.

 

[GoexBlackhorn]

I would concentrate on hitting inside a 10" circle at 100 yards first. Being you are just starting off and brand-spanking new to ML shooting with a traditional gun and open sights, that's asking enough for the very first year roundball shooter. If you conquer 10" early enough, try to narrow that to an 8" kill zone, which is my magic number for whitetail deer using roundballs.

Once you conquer 100 yards, move out to 125 and stop right there. That's about the limit for yardage / ethical shot on elk using a 54-roundball.

 

[kbf1961]

Im really leaning towards Lyman GPR. Should I just stick with the 1 in 60 twist for PRB or would it be worth while to try the faster 1 in 32 for bullet.

 

[cayuga]

Im really leaning towards Lyman GPR. Should I just stick with the 1 in 60 twist for PRB or would it be worth while to try the faster 1 in 32 for bullet.

I have both the Lyman Great Plains Rifle with the 1-60 twist and the Great Plains Hunter with the 1-32 twist. The Great Plains Hunter is a nice rifle and it will shoot round ball believe it or not. But you have to reduce the charge. I pushed the rifle as hard as 70 grains. It also shot a 450 grain conical bullet real well. Now the Great Plains Rifle with the 1-60 twist is a much better round ball shooter. I push that at 90 grains of powder and it shoots real good.

But a real surprise rifle is (I own both the .50 and .54 caliber) the Lyman Trade Rifle. It has a 1-48 twist. It is a very good round ball shooter. It also shoots sabots and powerbelts. But for some reason mine does not like conical bullets other then the power belts. The .50 caliber is a very good round ball shooter. But I do not push them hard for distance shooting. Most times on my personal range I only shoot out to 75 yards max. More often 50 yards and under.

 

[cayuga]

That is my Great Plains Hunter. look close at the shape of that butt stock. You shoot the rifle off the arm between the elbow and the shoulder. If you put that on your shoulder with a strong load, believe me, that rifle will let you know about it. It digs in on me. But the flint lock model (I like flint locks) is a very fast lock time. And the rifle has a nice balance to it.

 

[kbf1961]

Im really leaning towards Lyman GPR. Should I just stick with the 1 in 60 twist for PRB or would it be worth while to try the faster 1 in 32 for bullet.

I have both the Lyman Great Plains Rifle with the 1-60 twist and the Great Plains Hunter with the 1-32 twist. The Great Plains Hunter is a nice rifle and it will shoot round ball believe it or not. But you have to reduce the charge. I pushed the rifle as hard as 70 grains. It also shot a 450 grain conical bullet real well. Now the Great Plains Rifle with the 1-60 twist is a much better round ball shooter. I push that at 90 grains of powder and it shoots real good.

But a real surprise rifle is (I own both the .50 and .54 caliber) the Lyman Trade Rifle. It has a 1-48 twist. It is a very good round ball shooter. It also shoots sabots and powerbelts. But for some reason mine does not like conical bullets other then the power belts. The .50 caliber is a very good round ball shooter. But I do not push them hard for distance shooting. Most times on my personal range I only shoot out to 75 yards max. More often 50 yards and under.

Ive been doing a lot of studying on these forums lately gearing up for a purchase and for whatever its worth I read somewhere that the 1-48 twist rifles shoot nothing well..LOL Not to doubt you. Just saying...
The more I read and look around the more I become convinced just to go with the Lyman GPR 1-60 for PRB..If nothing else it seems the best entry level option.

 

[GM54-120]

For entry level i would look at the Knight Wolverine or Bighorn if you need PacNW compliance. They are conical or sabot shooters but can also shoot reduced power PRB loads.

They should cost less than that Lyman and Williams sells nice peep sights for them too. You should be able to pick up a new one in Camo/SS for $450 or less. I see them sell on the auction sights alot for well under $300 NIB. These are very very simple in design.

 

[cayuga]

A lot of people have said the 1-48 twist is a somewhat good shooter of round ball, conical, and sabots. Yet, the twist is very popular. And why, because many of us are not fanatical muzzleloader competitors. We just want a hunting rifle. And the 1-48 twist, for the average Joe is going to handle that easy. When I first started shooting muzzle loaders I can remember my friend and teacher of them telling me ... hit that paper plate consistently at 50 yards and you can kill a deer. Could my 1-48 twist .54 caliber Renegade do that. Easy as pie. Did I kill a lot of deer with it? Sure did. And then I too got fanatical. I wanted the best twist for round ball. I went with a 1-66, a 1-60, 1-70, and finally in my custom made .54 caliber flintlock they produced a 1-56 twist. All of them shot round ball excellent. Better then my 1-48 ... well both will hit that paper plate at 50 yards. Even 100 yards in my younger days. Do the others shoot a tighter group? Ohm.. yes they do. That 1-56 inch custom rifle is amazing actually. And for a hair under $2000.00 you can have one too. But would the 1-48 common twist rifle get the job done? Yes it will.

I think your making a great choice on the Lyman Great Plains rifle. Try and get it in .54 caliber. I personally would go flintlock if you want real sport and can find black powder where you live easy. Its far from an entry level rifle. They are a great rifle, balanced, nice wood, and shoot great. Again, great choice of rifle. Were I starting out new without a room full of rifles, that would be my choice too. Although that Lyman Trade Rifle is sure nice!! :mrgreen:

 

[wabowman]

Being from Western Washington I would go talk to the guys in Puyallup on river road. Very knowledgeable shop on all aspects of ML shooting and happy to share their experience.

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