Reducing delay between hammer fall and charge ignition?

[BlackPowderGuy (AJHS)]

OK, so as ya'll have figured out by now, the shots I took with my Deerhunter the other day were the first I've taken with a percussion sidelock. I was suprised by the delay between the time the cap "popped" and the gun went boom. It wasn't long exactly, but they were two distinct audio events...in my inline, the ignition feels instantaneous, like with a centerfire... Is there a way to shorten the gap? I figure the shorter the gap, the less likely a flinch will develop.

 

[deermanok]

In my own sidehammer guns, I only use real black powder with instant ignition.
With Pyrodex or Triple 7, Hot Shot nipple is usually what others use to eliminate any delayed ignition.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

My sidehammer guns(both TC renegades) fire nearly instantly with #11s and T7. Except when i haven't got all the oil or fouling cleared out, then i sometimes get a hang or miss fire. Sometimes, on a new gun, a machining burr or metal frags can be lodged in the fire channel causing a delay.

 

[Harley469]

There is also an option that I just discovered the other day (have purchased it and am waiting on it to arrive)- Mag Spark 209 Primer Adapter for Sidelocks. Essentially you are using a much more powerful 209 primer instead of a cap. I use Triple 7 with a No 11 magnum primer and occasionally I will have a slight delay. Personally, I can't stand the smell of black powder or how dirty it is.

 

[BlackPowderGuy (AJHS)]

There is also an option that I just discovered the other day (have purchased it and am waiting on it to arrive)- Mag Spark 209 Primer Adapter for Sidelocks. Essentially you are using a much more powerful 209 primer instead of a cap. I use Triple 7 with a No 11 magnum primer and occasionally I will have a slight delay. Personally, I can't stand the smell of black powder or how dirty it is.

Sent you a PM about a different subject...BUT, on the subject of the Mag Spark, would you consider writing a review and posting here...I've seen it only and curious how it works!

 

[Harley469]

Sent you a PM about a different subject...BUT, on the subject of the Mag Spark, would you consider writing a review and posting here...I've seen it only and curious how it works!

Sure, really looking forward to trying it out. I know if I push a patch all the way down to the breech it pushes too much gunk into the fire channel and then I have to take the nipple out and put a few grains of powder down there to get the gun to fire again. I am hoping that the 209 primer will blow that crap out and create a more powerful/consistent ignition in general.

 

[Bad Karma]

OK, so as ya'll have figured out by now, the shots I took with my Deerhunter the other day were the first I've taken with a percussion sidelock. I was suprised by the delay between the time the cap "popped" and the gun went boom. It wasn't long exactly, but they were two distinct audio events...in my inline, the ignition feels instantaneous, like with a centerfire... Is there a way to shorten the gap? I figure the shorter the gap, the less likely a flinch will develop.

Start with a very clean and dry rifle… after you dump the charge down bore but before seating the projectile bump the side of the rifle right at the breech. The thought is that you settle powder under the nipple in this manner. Now seat your projectile, cap and fire. There should be no hesitation with black powder or the substitutes using any good quality percussion cap. There’s just no reason to resort to anything but the system that’s been in place and proven millions of times over since the 1850’s. My percussion rifles all have very fast lock times.

 

[Fyrstyk]

Sure, really looking forward to trying it out. I know if I push a patch all the way down to the breech it pushes too much gunk into the fire channel and then I have to take the nipple out and put a few grains of powder down there to get the gun to fire again. I am hoping that the 209 primer will blow that crap out and create a more powerful/consistent ignition in general.

The secrete to NOT pushing fouling into the breech area is to use a jag that is smaller than the bore diameter by several hundreds, I use a .50 caliber jag in a .54, a .45 in a .50 etc. By using a smaller diameter jag & cleaning patch the patch does not push the fouling into the breach, but when pulled out, the patch bunches up on the jag and pulls the fouling out of the bore. Jags can be made smaller by chucking them in a drill and holding a file against the spinning jag to slightly reduce the diameter of the jag.

As for the mag-spark nipple replacement, they work well for igniting the substitute powders, but are extremely slow for reloading, and sometimes the fired primer gets stuck in the nipple and has to be pried out. I personally have never had a problem igniting the substitute powders when using a spit fire or Red Hot nipple and a standard #11 cap. YMMV

 

[Harley469]

The secrete to NOT pushing fouling into the breech area is to use a jag that is smaller than the bore diameter by several hundreds, I use a .50 caliber jag in a .54, a .45 in a .50 etc. By using a smaller diameter jag & cleaning patch the patch does not push the fouling into the breach, but when pulled out, the patch bunches up on the jag and pulls the fouling out of the bore. Jags can be made smaller by chucking them in a drill and holding a file against the spinning jag to slightly reduce the diameter of the jag.

I will certainly give that a shot, thanks

 

[snapbang]

The secrete to NOT pushing fouling into the breech area i

For all my MZs I tip the breech up (muzzle down) and swab. This lets the crap fall out of the barrel instead of down and possibly interfere with the ignition. For sidelocks I like to pull the nipple and trickle a few grains of powder under it. Just my way.

 

[Bushfire]

You don't need a magspark and 209 primers.

Just clean your gun properly before use so there is no oil around the breach/fire channel,

And use real black powder.

Problem solved.

 

[eekjellander]

You don't need a magspark and 209 primers.

Just clean your gun properly before use so there is no oil around the breach/fire channel,

And use real black powder.

Problem solved.

Need is the issue, not everyone has access to real black I do and still use Magsparks and anyone using subs in sidelocks wants too ! Aside from that caps like powders can be scarce in todays times so the more options is better (no brainer)/Ed

 

[BlackPowderGuy (AJHS)]

Sort of to take Ed's point a little further, something like Magspark (cool concept, to me) allows me to achieve certain economies of scale...1 kind of primer, one jar of sub... I DO understand the other side of the equation, the one that says this is supposed to be a traditional weapon and if you add a better primer, a sub powder, scope etc...then why not just shoot an inline...I do get that. I see similar arguments in the archery world about traditional vs compounds and both of them against the crossbows! - Everyone has their own reason for doing what they do, and I expect that that changes over time.

 

[Harley469]

Personally, I just hate the smell of black powder, or Pyrodex for that matter. Black powder/Triple 7...they are both used to blow the bullet out of the barrel. And if that Mag Spark works, then great. I like mixing tradional with innovation. That's why I bought a Hawken Hunter, so I could shoot high BC bullets out of a tradional rifle. I still shoot patch and ball out of other guns, but I do like to mix it up. I will literally hunt with my smokeless in-line one day and go to a patch and ball with the flint lock the next. I do the same thing in bow season, one day I might use my compound and the next day my crossbow. Each to their own is what I say.

 

[451whitworth]

You don't need a magspark and 209 primers.

Just clean your gun properly before use so there is no oil around the breach/fire channel,

And use real black powder.

Problem solved.

Agreed. When I switched to black powder in the 1990's after 10 years of shooting Pyrodex I was amazed at the immediate ignition in any temperature. You could leave the rifle loaded for days during hunting season and it would go off like you just loaded it. I always had hangfires with subs when I tried that. I use black powder not because it's traditional or historically correct (never one to care about that) but because it works the best in traditional guns. If there was a sub powder that offered Blackhorn 209 clean up with the ignition qualities of black powder I would switch tomorrow.

 

[Bushfire]

Yeah I'm not phased by tradition or what's historically correct, I'll leave that to the jokers on the sister forum. I still have some synthetic powder but it just doesn't work as well so i don't use it. I've got an inline, it's no hassle having 209s for it and 11s for the caplocks.

You want to talk about powder shortages, I don't think there has been a single powder shipment into my country since the pandemic began!

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not one of those guys telling anyone things have to be done a certain way or my way, I'm just offering suggestions based on experience.

For what it's worth I thought about putting a magspark on one of my caplocks to have it more water proof for hunting in rain. Spoke to a few guys that use them and the sticking issue seems to be a thing so decided for hunting it was not worth the hassle, nothing worse than missing/hitting a deer trying to load for a quick follow up and not being able to get the primer out. Mind you I've hunted in rain with no 11s and had no issues.

 

[snapbang]

For hunting in the rain with a #11, after loading in a dry place I put a little crisco around the #11 to seal it. Works every time.

 

[eekjellander]

Yeah I'm not phased by tradition or what's historically correct, I'll leave that to the jokers on the sister forum. I still have some synthetic powder but it just doesn't work as well so i don't use it. I've got an inline, it's no hassle having 209s for it and 11s for the caplocks.

You want to talk about powder shortages, I don't think there has been a single powder shipment into my country since the pandemic began!

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not one of those guys telling anyone things have to be done a certain way or my way, I'm just offering suggestions based on experience.

For what it's worth I thought about putting a magspark on one of my caplocks to have it more water proof for hunting in rain. Spoke to a few guys that use them and the sticking issue seems to be a thing so decided for hunting it was not worth the hassle, nothing worse than missing/hitting a deer trying to load for a quick follow up and not being able to get the primer out. Mind you I've hunted in rain with no 11s and had no issues.

I have harped on the sticking thing for yrs and seems some just don't get it ! Treat the 209 primer of your choice no different than a dry patch on you round ball ,stick the primer in your mouth while your putting powder in the barrel . When your finished install your wet primer in the Magspark ,occasionally spit in the cap (DONE) I shoot weekly every Friday at our club range (800 yds )along with guests (RFD member here being one) .My long range Renegade shoot 45-50 rds every Friday in season and no longer (EVER) gets a stuck primer (REPEAT NEVER) using this simple but effective method . If it works for me and I dare say being a private range I bust more primers than any muzzle loader in NYS /maybe further , the point is simple it works every time !/Ed

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I have harped on the sticking thing for yrs and seems some just don't get it ! Treat the 209 primer of your choice no different than a dry patch on you round ball ,stick the primer in your mouth while your putting powder in the barrel . When your finished install your wet primer in the Magspark ,occasionally spit in the cap (DONE) I shoot weekly every Friday at our club range (800 yds )along with guests (RFD member here being one) .My long range Renegade shoot 45-50 rds every Friday in season and no longer (EVER) gets a stuck primer (REPEAT NEVER) using this simple but effective method . If it works for me and I dare say being a private range I bust more primers than any muzzle loader in NYS /maybe further , the point is simple it works every time !/Ed

My only problem with the magspark is getting at the cap when my fingers are a little cold. It does have ribs but its just tough to get that cap on and off.

 

[rangerod]

If you use the Magspark with 209's will that increase crud ring?