Rem 700ML upgrades?

[Ninering62]

Factory trigger can be lightened to have a crisp clean pull. I built one for a friend that used a cut off GM 45 1-20 twist 45 barrel. I stocked it with a Richards micro fit laminate. I ditched the barrel band by attaching a second fastening point in the front of the receiver. I also converted it to BH209 gun using my own conversion. It shot extremely well with big lead up to 500 gr IIRC. I believe he even harvested a deer with one of those bullets at 100 + plus yds. DRT.

Thanks for your post. Great info & very cool what you did with yours.

 

[mike nelson]

I have 2- 77/50's with the bolt nose conversions & laminate stocks and the factory triggers at least on these 2 rifles are crisp. Note that the Rugers have a 3 position swing type safety (like a Win model 70) which to me is a plus for a hunting rifle

 

[Tracker12]

How is the accuracy on those Rugers

 

[old man jim]

As the OP on this thread, I just don't understand all the references to smokeless conversions. I did not state that was what I intended to do, my intention is to build a long range BLACK POWDER rifle. I purchased the Rem 700 because I want to put it in a chassis system and asked the questions because i wanted to be sure that products made for a 700 action would fit this rifle. I appreciate all the responses, but smokeless conversion information will not help me.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

As the OP on this thread, I just don't understand all the references to smokeless conversions. I did not state that was what I intended to do, my intention is to build a long range BLACK POWDER rifle. I purchased the Rem 700 because I want to put it in a chassis system and asked the questions because i wanted to be sure that products made for a 700 action would fit this rifle. I appreciate all the responses, but smokeless conversion information will not help me.

If you put a 1.200" diameter 45 caliber barrel on it, and use the Arrowhead type modules, and boltnose/firing pin, and breechplug, you should be able to use it with black powder, also.

Since the rifle would be built for higher pressures, you can use a larger load of Black Powder, which is what you need for longer ranges.

If I am wrong, someone here please correct me.

 

[Danno]

Not wrong at all.......totally correct.

 

[old man jim]

This Gun was manufactured by Remington strictly for the use of black powder only. Do I need to make changes to the existing Remington equipment to do so?? Why would this be necessary? I don't want to make revisions that keep me from doing that.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

This Gun was manufactured by Remington strictly for the use of black powder only. Do I need to make changes to the existing Remington equipment to do so?? Why would this be necessary? I don't want to make revisions that keep me from doing that.

If you want a 200 yard muzzleloader that uses #11 nipple primers, it will do the job for you.


If you want a factory rifle that shoots out to longer ranges, the CVA Paramount might be a better option for you.

If you want a sidelock capable of long range you need to talk to Idaho Lewis. I have been amazed at some of the long shots he has made.

.

 

[BadgerRidge]

As the OP on this thread, I just don't understand all the references to smokeless conversions. I did not state that was what I intended to do, my intention is to build a long range BLACK POWDER rifle. I purchased the Rem 700 because I want to put it in a chassis system and asked the questions because i wanted to be sure that products made for a 700 action would fit this rifle. I appreciate all the responses, but smokeless conversion information will not help me.

I think a lot of folks like to tinker and play with these rifles... so that may explain why you've received such a broad range of answers and tangent discussions to your original posts. Also these threads are frequented by others with similar quesions/ideas...

I'd suggest that you consider the original cap system is barely adequate to set off black powder. It has flaws that demand constant management and maintenance to keep at the most basic level of reliability, its less safe (due to blow back hitting the shooter), and is prone to be much less reliable in adverse weather due to water infiltration. These are compared to the sealed breech 209 system I sell.

For me a hunting rifle needs to be safe, reliable, and accurate (in that order). So I'd always dump the percussion caps (if I'm not hunting in Idaho and Oregon) and use our 209 system as the blow back of a leaky breech is less safe, reliable, and tolerant of adverse weather.

But of course I do sell them, so many may accuse me of bias. Though like many here, I was a open breech user who found a better way with the 209 system... not just some one selling you something.

I too have zero desire to put any money into barrel swaps, but have one rifle I put together by buying a Rem 700 MLS 45 cal factory barreled action, built a bolt, then dropped it in a nice stock, upgraded a trigger, and glass bedded as a play project attempt to see how a 45 could do at longer ranges.... then I moved to the woods where I have a max of about 150yds shots, but typically less than 60yrds. (didn't need the range nor the heavier weight).

Bottom line to your question: Anything made for a Remington 700 short action will work with the 700ML/MLS... though the stocks won't be modified for the ram rods... you can get a folding ram rod that stores on a sling and use a range rod at your truck if you want to put a new stock on it.

If you shoot a leaky breech system: expect to have to be spot on with your maintenance and trouble shooting, if you have a scope expect the bottom of it to get covered in hot corrosive/abrasive fouling, and expect to replace nipples and main springs fairly often as they deform and wear with that system no matter how good you are at cleaning & lubing. Like I said, in my opinion, over its life time its barely adequate for black powder.

Hope this helps,

Tom

PS... Not all 209 systems are created equal.. you will find leaky ones out there for the 700ML/MLS... they have all the same problems (and arguably more) than the original percussion cap system. Those leaky breach systems are not comparable to a sealed breech (like I sell).

 

[sheriffjohn]

My son added a Bushnell Elite scope to mine. Very good light - gathering, even at dawn and dusk. Need to let him borrow some more of my stuff. Always come home better'n when it left.

 

[Dom]

I use an older Rem 700 MLS that has been upgraded (thanks to Badger Ridge) to 209 system and use Blackhorn. I absolutely recommend that upgrade if legal where you hunt. I didn't see the need for any other modifications.

 

[mike nelson]

How is the accuracy on those Rugers

Clover leaf groups @ 100 yds., BH 209 & Barnes Expanders off a rest.

 

[jsteurrys]

Get the Bolt Nose Kit from Badger Ridge. You will be happy you did. The Action of your rifle will stay clean and it will go bang every time as long as you keep up with cleaning the carbon out of breechplug.

 

[BadgerRidge]

Years ago I got tired of hauling around my Austin Halleck and picked up a used 77-50, probably a 2-3 lb difference.

Mines been fine, what problems do they have?

Don't want to continue a hijack, especailly after the OP has expressed his frustrations... but you asked a question that went unanswered... I think you will find answers about the Ruger here:

https://www.badgerridgeind.com/badgerden/now-offering-sealed-breech-ruger-7750-conversions

 

[BadgerRidge]

This Gun was manufactured by Remington strictly for the use of black powder only. Do I need to make changes to the existing Remington equipment to do so?? Why would this be necessary? I don't want to make revisions that keep me from doing that.

Well to be technical... the barrel Remington put on it should say "Black Powder or Pyrodex only." At the time the rifle was made those two were essentially the only two choices for a muzzle loader. Later other products came out that produce 'Black Powder-like' pressure curves and are called black powder substitutes. You can essentially substitute them for black powder in any rifle that was made to be safe with black powder. Those substitutes tend to be less volatile than black powder, so its easier to buy them... ie walmart frequently stocks many of the modern black powder substitutes.

If your rifle can shoot an 80-120 grain charge of black powder (like a Remington 700ML/MLS) then you can use the same volume of Blackhorn 209, pyrodex, 777, (both pellets and loose powder... but always read and follow the powder manufactures instructions for exact limits with different weight projectiles etc). They are all volumetrically designed to be black powder substitutes, perform with similar pressures, and be safe. So since that rifle was made, there have been many improvements in available safe powders for it.

Now-a-days I think its easiest to think of these substitutes as being in two groups.
- Those that make sticky fouling that tends to require cleaning between shots with organic solvents (like water, windex, spit etc)... Black powder, Pyrodex, 777, white hots, etc are in this group
- Those that don't generate fouling that build up between shots and only require cleaning at the end of the day with standard gun cleaning products (Hoppes, bore solvents, CLP, etc). Blackhorn209 is the lone contender here

Of the available propellants, you will find that many here love Blackhorn209 (me included)... its chemically similar in many ways (but not all) to smokeless powder... but is volumetrically the same as black powder. So it doesn't build fouling, you can load and shoot all day and not need to clean between shots. It also produces less smoke, so you can probably see your target flee (and or get hit at longer ranges).

At heavier projectile weights, about 275gr and up, Blackhorn will out perform all other powders 1:1 as far as velocity is concerned... ie 100 grains of Blackhorn should push a 275 grain or heavier projectile just a bit faster than 100 grains of any other propellant. But as it has a very similar pressure curve to black powder, its not extremely faster... just a bit faster.

Also because Blackhorn uses a nitrocellulose base, it cleans up much like standard fire arms (rifles shot guns) and why its in a group alone.

But Blackhorn is tougher to ignite (needs full powered or magnum 209's), and needs to be sealed up to keep it burning, so with your rifle's current #11 nipple system its not compatible with Blackhorn209. If you have a sealed breech kit put on your rifle (like the one I sell), then your rifle will be able to shoot any muzzle loader safe propellant/black powder/black powder substitute... even though it only has "Black Power or Pyrodex" embossed on the barrel. Plus it seals all the crap into the breech plug making maintenance easier and improving reliability. Typically sealing up the blow back tends to tighten groups a bit too... I believe it is because you get more consistent pressure from shot to shot over a leaky breech system like your #11 percussion caps... plus blackhorn 209 is more temperature stable so it tends not to have the drop in speed you can see from shooting in colder temps than where you sighted in... but I make no guarantees as to accuracy.

If you put our sealed breech system on your rifle, you won't limit it in any way... more over you broaden the powders you can use with it to Black Powder or any Black Powder substitute.

Hope this helps,

Tom