Sabot + Bullet total diameters+ primer dimensions

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Sideshow

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How do you measure the bore?
Is it top of the lands (min bore diameter) or bottom of grooves (max bore diameter)?
On top of lands , minimum bore diameter . You want about .003 " larger bullet/sabot size , give or take a thou .. Bore is easiest to measure using a " small hole guage" then measure it with a micrometer . Starret and others make those guages .
 
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HC

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New thousand of Win 209 (blue box), I got around to measuring some and was surprised to find they are shorter than previous. The new primers measure. .296 to .300 in length. May be a good thing .
 

Idaholewis

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New thousand of Win 209 (blue box), I got around to measuring some and was surprised to find they are shorter than previous. The new primers measure. .296 to .300 in length. May be a good thing .
When i had my Knight Mountaineer i ran across this same thing with my Win 209 (Blue box) i ended up measuring and sorting all of my Primers, I couldn’t use The Longest ones (The longest ones I found were .301) They would Get “Sticky” to Extract.
 
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Busta

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New thousand of Win 209 (blue box), I got around to measuring some and was surprised to find they are shorter than previous. The new primers measure. .296 to .300 in length. May be a good thing .
When i had my Knight Mountaineer i ran across this same thing with my Win 209 (Blue box) i ended up measuring and sorting all of my Primers, I couldn’t use The Longest ones (The longest ones I found were .301) They would Get “Sticky” to Extract.

I discovered the shorter Winchester W209 (Blue Box) Primers as far back as January 12, 2012 and posted here in this thread, post #22 on page 2. Instead of being 0.300" - 0.305" and averaging 0.3023 like in the original chart dated August 18, 2008, they were more in line with the Federal 209A and CCI 209M measurements 0.298"ish to 0.301"ish.

Here are 10 random primers from Winchester W209 (Blue Box) Primers with that old 2012 Lot # CCL465 to the nearest half thousandth (0.0005).

0.2990"
0.2995"
0.2985"
0.3010"
0.2990"
0.2990"
0.2995"
0.3000"
0.3000"
0.2990"

0.29945" Average

0.3010" High

0.2984" Low

0.0025" Extreme Spread


One taken from each row and each column.
IMG_20200201_100953924.jpg

Here is the original 2008 chart of primers from that time frame for comparison.
142rfkj.jpg

So, not even close to the 0.300" to 0.305" W209's from 2008 that averaged 0.3023", with an extreme spread of 0.0050".


Here is post #22, you'll have to click on it to read it all.

No, it is not just you. I know my chart was accurate at the time it was made, with 10 randomly chosen primers from each box, and that particular lot number. If you read the fine print on the bottom, it will explain that these results could be different with 10 different primers from the exact same box or lot number.

My last purchase of Winchester W209's resulted with measurements that are shorter than previous primers. These are more in line with the measurements of CCI and Fed primers.

It is nice that they are much closer in length, but the big drawback is that the Muzzleloader Manufacturers are making their primer headspace to the maximum primer length. I don't know if this was an engineering change at Winchester, or just the run on this lot number.

I have several custom breech plugs that the headspace was set for several different primers. Now I can use my CCI/FED plugs to shoot these newer/shorter WIN primers, so that is a good thing. However I will not be getting rid of my old WIN headspaced breech plugs, because the next lot of primers might average 0.005" longer than thes new ones again. Of course the longer headspaced breech plugs will shoot all the primers, but I get ZERO blowback with my fitted plugs. Unless you get lucky, the factory OEM breech plugs will probably leak blowback, especially with the shorter primers.

Sounds anal, but I HATE blowback, and I will go to great lengths to keep it out of my rifles.
 
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Busta

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I just went through and measured that whole box of Winchester W209's for length, and discovered a couple things.

First, the sample size of 10 did give the correct average. Second, I did have 2 primers measure as low as 0.2970", and 2 primers measure as high as 0.3020". The vast majority of them measured between 0.2990" and 0.3000", but outliers did change the high, low, and open the extreme spread to 0.0050". Albeit only 4 primers out of 100.
 
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GM54-120

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2 lots of NSI 209/688s

Nobel 688 Lot# 4-69-16-2
.3025
.3025
.3025
.3015
.302
.300
.3025
.3005
.3025
.3025
Lot # 4-81-16-1 had 3 primers at .303 but otherwise a very similar spread. OD was between .2425 and .244
 
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