Sabots for 20ga

[Banerbird]

Does anyone know where to get 20ga sabots for reloading 45 cal slugs? I found 12ga sabots for reloading 50cal slugs at BPI, but nothing on 20ga. All I can find on 20ga sabots is reference to Collet Cup Sabots on other chat/blog sites, but those chats are a couple years old. Absolutely nothing on purchasing them. Any help would be appreciated.

BTW... on those 12ga sabots... I haven't fine tuned anything, but my most accurate load to date (21gr International Clays, Flexseal, RSS sabot, 300gr Gold Dot, fold crimp) felt like a light 20ga dove load. Accuracy is close to me being comfortable, but not quite yet. I'm also trying the 275gr Barnes with the same charges as the 300gr GD with similar accuracy, but even less kick. The same load as above, but with the 275gr Barnes felt like a 410.

I'm liking the 12ga so far, but would jump all over the 20ga if I can get ahold of some.

My ranges are 150yds or less, so my intent is not to push too fast. I'm only interested in 1600-1700fps max.

 

[paia]

Can't help you with the 20 ga stuff, but if you find any info I would be interested too.

Did you chrono the 12 ga load with 21 grns of Int. Clays? What do you think the velocity is? If it kicks so lightly I wonder if you are getting close to 1700?

I tried reloading the Lyman 20 ga sabots a few years ago and did not have much success. That's one of the reasons I got more and more into my Omega inline--I use it in Iowa's shotgun season.

I'd like to find an economical 20 ga slug reload that would shoot half decent in my rifled 20 ga 870. I could at least use the reload for practice. The factory stuff is just too expensive to shoot more than a few rounds a year.

 

[Banerbird]

I haven't chrono'd it yet. I'm guessing I'm around 1500-1550?? The load data I followed was for a 350gr XTP @ 1410fps, but I'm loading with the 300gr GD and 275gr Barnes. I have some others loaded with a different gas seal and 22gr Intl Clays, but haven't tried them yet. I figured out that with a fold crimp (rather than a rolled crimp so I could reuse the hulls), when it's all said and done, I'll be between $1 and $1.10 per round when loaded with the Gold Dots and $1.50 - $1.60 per round with the Barnes.

I'm currently using a Winchester 1300, but am looking at the H&R Ultralight Slug Hunter to try out. I'm guessing I'll get better consistency in accuracy on the H&R because the barrel is not slipped on like the 1300.

I mainly use one of my 2 Black Diamonds for hunting. The reloading is more of a "see what I can do" type of thing. My primary reason for seeing if I could get a good reload was to find a soft shooting load good to 150yds. I've shot the Hornady's and Winchester Supreme's and they just flat out hurt. Not to mention they're overkill for hunting whitetail (IMO). I've contacted Hornady, Winchester, and Remington asking about a lighter load good to 150yds or so (market to women, elderly, and youth??). They all didn't seem too interested. My secondary reason was for cost. $1 per round vs $3+ sounds pretty good.

 

[GM54-120]

Banerbird

Ive shot quite a few of the 50-300gr GoldDots and they work well upto at least 1800fps out of my 54-120 in a 50x54 sabot. I also used the Barnes 50 275gr XPB and ML bullets. Both are great in the 1500-1600fps MV range. I used the Barnes in my old ThunderHawk and milder loads of Pyro.

I Know you are using them in a shotgun but i thought you might like some input on performance at a similar muzzle velocity.

Another great 50cal is the Remington 50-385gr CoreLok HP. They even used it in some slug ammo at 1800fps. Its usually about 52-60 cents a bullet. Kinda overkill for deer but on a big hog or larger game i would like the insurance.

 

[paia]

Banerbird, I tried the 20 ga reloading for the same reason you did--just wanted to see what I could do. The 20 ga Lyman slugs from the Lyman mold are the "old" BRI style, wasp-waisted slugs and they are loaded in regular 20 ga shot wads and a folded crimp is used. If I recall correctly I used Blue Dot and did not get great accuracy. I also had trouble with the slugs keyholing and breaking in half at their narrow waist. Looking back, I think they were cast with an alloy that was too hard. A friend cast them for me and I think he used the same alloy he uses for hard pistol bullets. I should get him to try and cast some slugs with pure lead and see how they behave.

I was just looking for some affordable practice ammo for my rifled 20 ga slug gun. $3 dollars or more for factory sabot ammo is too much, and the old style foster-type slugs don't shoot well in my rifled barrel--I have tried them all.

This fall I wound up buying a 20 ga smooth-bore barrel for my 870--it's 18 or 20" long with open sights. I took off the 20 ga cantilever scope mount barrel and drilled and tapped the receiver for a Weaver base and put my Leupold scope right on the receiver. With the smooth bore barrel and Remington "Slugger" ammo the gun will do 3" at 40 yards and I can afford to shoot it all I want; if I catch a sale the Sluggers are only about 60 cents a shot. It's not the ammo you want for out to 150 yds, but it works for me and what I had in mind.

I hunt Iowa and we drive deer, so sometimes it is nice to have the slug gun and 5 shots. This year I killed a nice 11 with my Omega, but my friend's brother used my 20 ga 870 kill a beautiful heavy, mature 10. 12 ga slugs are overkill--my 20 ga with a Remington Slugger shot clean through this buck at 25 yds and he did not like it one bit. 8)

 

[choc-dog]

There is a gunshop in New Jersey that sells the 20 gauge sabots. They are called the "CSS" sabot and I have been loading them for 2 years.

Accuracy in my T/C Encore 20 gauge is just awesome.

I will post the contact info later for you.

Chocdog

 

[paia]

That's great to hear--looking forward to getting the info--thanks--

 

[choc-dog]

The contact info: CCS sabot slugs, Gun Servicing LLC 609-261-7373

A 100 sabots, gas seals and nitro cards is about $100.00. They will include loading data.

You will to buy new 20 gauge cases from BP Products in Minn and a roll crimp die. The folded crimp cases cannot be used, they will not fold correctly.

Chocdog

 

[Banerbird]

Choc-dog,

Thank you so much. That's awesome!!!!

Just curious. What thickness nitro card do you use (or did they send)? $100 seems a little high when comparing to what I spent on the 12ga supplies. I could probably get them cheaper at BPI. I spent about $70 total for supplies from BPI (100 hulls, 500 nitro cards, 250 gas seals, 100 sabots, and shipping) on my 12ga loads. Does the $100 include the shipping costs?

Not saying I won't spend a little extra $. The CCS sabots look like they'll open up sooner than the RSS sabots from BPI. The RSS sabots I've shot are laying on the ground about 40yds away. Not to mention that I really do want the 20ga sabots and since CCS is the only one I can find that makes them....

Anyway, Thanks again for the info.

 

[Banerbird]

Choc-dog....

Thanks again. I just called them. I'm mailing my check tonight. I can't wait.

 

[choc-dog]

Guys,

I am loading 31.5 grs of Blue Dot powder in a range pick up Hornady 20 gauge SST case with the Hornady .45 250gr ML or FTX bullet.

Since I am shooting a T/C Pro Hunter 20 gauge single shot the bullet does protrude above the case after the roll crimp is applied. For those of you using pumps or auto 20 gauge shotguns you should use the Hornady .45 250 gr pistol bullet as it will be below the folded crimp.

Loading " shotgun slugs" is the pure definition of handloading. I am re-sizing the case and re-seating a new primer using a MEC 600 jr. but after that the
CSS gas seal..4- 1/8 inch nitro cards and the sabot with bullet are all inserted by hand and then roll crimped.

My 50 yard accuracy in under 1 inch and I have shot groups that are a ragged hole. My 100 yard groups are about 1 1/2 inches.

To roll my own slugs.... cost about $1.30 each

Chocdog

 

[Banerbird]

I estimated the cost at $1.35 per round (rounding everything up), so I'm not too far off. I'm hoping to use the 250gr Gold Dot. I've had great success with my muzzleloaders in the 240gr and 270gr GD, so I want to stick with that brand. Have you chrono'd your loads with the Blue Dot? I was looking at using 800X, but that's just because I've only seen load data for 800X, IMR PB, and International Clays. It looks like 800X provides more velocity with less pressures. When I started with the 12ga loads, locally, the stores were limited in their selections only had Intl' Clays in stock, although I really wanted 800X. I just found a small shop that does carry it (along with a lot of others), so I'm in business.

 

[choc-dog]

Bannerbird,

I did not chrono my loads but I estimate my velocity at about 1640 FPS. I have a chronograph but was concerned the sabot would do it harm so I opted not to shoot thru the screens.

My last 2 bucks killed with my 20 gauge reloads were DRT (dead right there)
using the thicker jacketed Hornady .45 250gr FTX bullet. This bullet was designed for the 450 bushmaster and my speeds are 400 FPS slower than
the bullet is designed for.

The best 2 "Magnum" shotshell powders are Blue Dot and Hodgdons Longshot.
No one has any loading data for slug shooting using Longshot powder, why I do not know.

Chocdog

 

[Banerbird]

Now for the gun... Savage 220 or Ithaca Deerslayer II... The Savage is about half the cost, but I do like the Deerslayer. I have an older model 37 Featherlite already and love it. I considered the H&R, but don't like the looks or feel of it as much as the Ithaca.

I'm trying to talk myself into the Ithaca.

 

[choc-dog]

No Contest.....the Savage 220. I don't own or have shot one but a pard' I have compared loads with has 4 of them and they drive tacks.

Chocdog

 

[jcchartboy]

No Contest.....the Savage 220.
Chocdog

100% correct..The only issue is the Failure to Fire problems that have plagued the 220's to date.

JC

 

[choc-dog]

JC,

I wondered when you were going to show up.

Chocdog

 

[choc-dog]

No Contest.....the Savage 220.
Chocdog

100% correct..The only issue is the Failure to Fire problems that have plagued the 220's to date.

JC

Jc,

I saw there was a thread on this issue on "Shotgun World" but did not read it.

Whats the scoop on this issue?

Chocdog

 

[Banerbird]

I've heard about the failing to fire issue too, but don't remember much about it. I just talked to a co-worker that has the Savage 220 and he's heard that that problem seems to revolve around Federal ammo. He did mention that on his, he has problems with ejecting when he does it slowly or gently. He stated that if he does it quick and deliberate (not rough) there's no issues.

 

[jcchartboy]

I just talked to a co-worker that has the Savage 220 and he's heard that that problem seems to revolve around Federal ammo.

The problem is not specific to any particular type of ammo at all. The orginal factory firing pins apparenting were not producing the correct firing pin strike in terms of depth/pressure. The company is now providing new springs to anyone that asks.

JC