Sabots - Looking for a good Whitetail match

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RoJo

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P.S. With so many different methods that members use to choose their favorite sabot/bullet combos, is there anything specific that I should NOT consider testing - as in a certain weight or type of bullet, etc? I know that I will eventually find answers to all my questions in time. I'm hoping to speed the process using the advantage of the expertise of MM members. Thank you in advance for any tips you have to offer.

NOTE: "Not my day! Just spent 20 min. typing a post regarding recent experiences testing sabots and looking for suggestions. Somehow, I did an edit to add the above P.S. and made my entire post disappear."

When I was younger they called it ADD. Since my hair began turning lightning-silver they call it something else. Will try again tomorrow. (lol)
 
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If you're using 100grs of BH by WEIGHT...………. YOU'RE OVER CHARGING YOUR RIFLE.

84grs by WEIGHT is a maximum charge for your rifle.

Your 100grs WEIGHED equals just about 143grs VOLUME.

NOTE: My answers based on using BH209 in production rifles capable of using BH.

For the past 46 years shooting muzzleloaders, I never measured a bore, nor cared its exact size. When shooting sabots, I want a sabot/bullet combination to load from 30 to 35#.

a) Compression of the bullet to the propellant, or force to seat the sabot/bullet? Either way, I prefer a 30 to 35# loading force, but use much more pressure to seat the combo on the propellant. I seat the bullet with a HARD 2-handed THUMP. Actual force measurement indicates 106fpf.

b) I think as far as the actual ballistics, you'll need data and a calculator/software, but what you should look for is best accuracy you can achieve for which sabot may be best.

c) IMO and as mentioned, a sabot/bullet combination that loads at 30 to 35# is a good fit. Match the charge to the bullet for the combinations best accuracy.
 
If you're using 100grs of BH by WEIGHT...………. YOU'RE OVER CHARGING YOUR RIFLE.

84grs by WEIGHT is a maximum charge for your rifle.

Your 100grs WEIGHED equals just about 143grs VOLUME.

NOTE: My answers based on using BH209 in production rifles capable of using BH.

For the past 46 years shooting muzzleloaders, I never measured a bore, nor cared its exact size. When shooting sabots, I want a sabot/bullet combination to load from 30 to 35#.

a) Compression of the bullet to the propellant, or force to seat the sabot/bullet? Either way, I prefer a 30 to 35# loading force, but use much more pressure to seat the combo on the propellant. I seat the bullet with a HARD 2-handed THUMP. Actual force measurement indicates 106fpf.

b) I think as far as the actual ballistics, you'll need data and a calculator/software, but what you should look for is best accuracy you can achieve for which sabot may be best.

c) IMO and as mentioned, a sabot/bullet combination that loads at 30 to 35# is a good fit. Match the charge to the bullet for the combinations best accuracy.
 
Thanks for the reply. I just posted an edit and wiped out my entire post when I edited-in the P. S. It took a lot of time to write. Could I ask a huge favor and ask you to copy and send via personal msg? Would be grateful.

BTW, the vials were filled with "exactly" 70 gr by weight. Part of preparing for the range was to check each against the other by weight AND volume. I'll have to explain that whole experience one day.
 
If you're using 100grs of BH by WEIGHT...………. YOU'RE OVER CHARGING YOUR RIFLE.

84grs by WEIGHT is a maximum charge for your rifle.

Your 100grs WEIGHED equals just about 143grs VOLUME.

NOTE: My answers based on using BH209 in production rifles capable of using BH.

For the past 46 years shooting muzzleloaders, I never measured a bore, nor cared its exact size. When shooting sabots, I want a sabot/bullet combination to load from 30 to 35#.

a) Compression of the bullet to the propellant, or force to seat the sabot/bullet? Either way, I prefer a 30 to 35# loading force, but use much more pressure to seat the combo on the propellant. I seat the bullet with a HARD 2-handed THUMP. Actual force measurement indicates 106fpf.

b) I think as far as the actual ballistics, you'll need data and a calculator/software, but what you should look for is best accuracy you can achieve for which sabot may be best.

c) IMO and as mentioned, a sabot/bullet combination that loads at 30 to 35# is a good fit. Match the charge to the bullet for the combinations best accuracy.
Thank you. Exactly how to do I measure that 30-35#? Don at WP told me one day it was ok to seat the BH209 with a couple of taps of the ramrod. I consistently tap 5 times every shot but have no idea if it had any effect. Thanks
 
You can measure it with a set of bathroom scales and help. You don't have a charge in the rifle and remove your breech plug, then just push the sabot/bullet through for loading force. The loading force will be prior to and NOT after your witness mark. Pushing through the breech area will likely be tighter in a production rifle.

Set the rifle on the scales and by just holding it upright, identify and write down the weight. Help here is nice...…. start the bullet through the crown first. With the rifle on the scales, slowly push the sabot/bullet down the bore and have someone record the highest force (weight). A ………. SMOOTH...…. push. If you accelerate, you'll increase the force (weight) beyond actual.

EXAMPLE: IF the rifle combination weighs 8# to start, then the force to load shows on the scales 40#, then 40-8=32#

Bathroom scales will work, just not precise. Many shooters use that method with success.

I do things a little more precise, using precision force gauges. I'm a retired Ergonomist and the one tool I'll always keep is my force gauge.
 
You can measure it with a set of bathroom scales and help. You don't have a charge in the rifle and remove your breech plug, then just push the sabot/bullet through for loading force. The loading force will be prior to and NOT after your witness mark. Pushing through the breech area will likely be tighter in a production rifle.

Set the rifle on the scales and by just holding it upright, identify and write down the weight. Help here is nice...…. start the bullet through the crown first. With the rifle on the scales, slowly push the sabot/bullet down the bore and have someone record the highest force (weight). A ………. SMOOTH...…. push. If you accelerate, you'll increase the force (weight) beyond actual.

EXAMPLE: IF the rifle combination weighs 8# to start, then the force to load shows on the scales 40#, then 40-8=32#

Bathroom scales will work, just not precise. Many shooters use that method with success.

I do things a little more precise, using precision force gauges. I'm a retired Ergonomist and the one tool I'll always keep is my force gauge.
I will try that tomorrow morning. Thanks for explaining.
 
I will try that tomorrow morning. Thanks for explaining.
Just wondering, Don at WP told me last week that BH 209 has the potential to settle “some.” When I weighed my 70 gr of BH last week I gently poured the charge into BK 209 range tubes, just to see how accurate the 100 gr mark was on the tube. Pretty close for the most part. I experimented and noticed that with a certain number of flicks with my finger and a few tapping the tube on the table that I could get the BH to settle almost a full 10 gr. I made a reasonable assumption that the shape and rigid nature of the BH gr. allowed it to settle, but not as densely as a “ powder.”

I do not have a ballistic-minded intellect. Would you expect that I’d still get that consistent loading force with the BH’s lack of density? Anyone believe that a certain force would begin to crack/pulverize any of the BH grains? Also, can I assume that if you get a good loading force you don’t have to worry about your charge settling as you move through the woods all day - or is their a muzzleloaders technique to prevent that? Thanks again.
 
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