School me on BH 209 in a 45

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wolfer

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Working on a ML to send to my nephew in WY. He is pretty much ML novice. Have an Omega 50 and Rem 700 ML 45 to work up for him.

Years since I shot any "smoke" powder and he not up to SML yet. My smoker Xperience was way B4 any BH209. and I never messed with pellets.

What is the parameters of BH 209 in 45 cal? And any suggestions for BH209 loads in the Omega 50? The Omega is an X7 model and has a pretty short barrel.

These be pretty much deer/antelope loading. He great archery hunter so Loong range shooting really not needed as he is a great stalker. Want to do the load development for him so when I send the rifle it's pretty much a plug-n-play deal.

All suggestions considered and will see what happens.

Thanks to all, W

PS. My 50 cal go to is 300 grain .458 bullets in BCR sabots. Will try that depending. Plus have some favorite low recoil loads of 200grainX40cal in the dark blue sabots that shoot real great in my SML for close DRT work but don't know about ignition with the BH209.

Safety 1st, then accuracy!
 
I would think around 110gr of BH209 by Volume and a Barnes 250gr TEZ in a Harvester smooth black sabot would shoot good out of the Omega. I haven't shoot that load yet out of my newly acquired Omega but will shortly, I hope.
 
I use 110-115 grains of B209 in my 45 cal Knight Elite. The 195 grain Barnes bullet averages 2218 FPS.

For a modern 50 cal in-line, 110-120 grains of B209 is the top end for most of us.
 
Wyoming muzzleloading regulations for taking big game. Edited to show just the muzzleloader regulations.

"Section 4. Firearms, muzzle-loaders and cartridges that are legal for the taking of
big or trophy game animals.

.......(ii) Any muzzle-loading rifle or any muzzle-loading handgun of at least .40
caliber and firing an expanding point bullet or lead ball and using a charge of at least fifty (50)
grains of black powder or its equivalent.......... "
 
Wolfer youll also want to compress that powder charge before the bullet is seated . I use a powder packer tool that the spring unseats @ 75lbs when pushing the ram rod down . Encore50a uses 106 lbs . This step tightened my groups quite a bit . Bh209 seems to really like this in everything ive shot it in .
Hope youve got the badger ridge complete conversion for 209 primers too for that 700ml . I wish my 700ml was a 45 , ive got a 50 with mid 900's serial no . One of the first year produced id guess in ss .
Truthfully the omega is probably a better beginers gun IMO . Easier to maintain , parts availability ,and lighter.
Good Luck !!!!!
 
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Working on a ML to send to my nephew in WY. He is pretty much ML novice. Have an Omega 50 and Rem 700 ML 45 to work up for him.

Years since I shot any "smoke" powder and he not up to SML yet. My smoker Xperience was way B4 any BH209. and I never messed with pellets.

What is the parameters of BH 209 in 45 cal? And any suggestions for BH209 loads in the Omega 50? The Omega is an X7 model and has a pretty short barrel.

These be pretty much deer/antelope loading. He great archery hunter so Loong range shooting really not needed as he is a great stalker. Want to do the load development for him so when I send the rifle it's pretty much a plug-n-play deal.

All suggestions considered and will see what happens.

Thanks to all, W

PS. My 50 cal go to is 300 grain .458 bullets in BCR sabots. Will try that depending. Plus have some favorite low recoil loads of 200grainX40cal in the dark blue sabots that shoot real great in my SML for close DRT work but don't know about ignition with the BH209.

Safety 1st, then accuracy!
90 grains and a Parker BE shoot great out of my Austin & Halleck .45, unsized. Bob sizes them at .451 (I haven’t checked them myself) they fit great and shoot great, so I don’t really care what size they are.....
 
I think we are forgetting that this young man is a NEW B. to the world of muzzleloader's so let's start by keeping it as simple as possible for him to get him started in a sport we all love. First off make sure your breech plug is of the right type to make sure it is going to set off BH209 reliably ea. and every time for both guns. You will also need to shoot standard 209 shotgun primers and not the muzzleloader primers like triple 7 or Remington clean bore primers (Not hot enough to ignite bh209) Now as far as BH209 do not need to swab your barrel in between shots at all, as far as cleaning use a reg. cleaner like Hoppies 209 boar cleaner followed by straight 91% alcohol this will cut the oily stuff left behind by the Hoppies then dry patch it completely dry . Easy peasy. NOW as far as your loads go BH209 needs to be compressed fairly good to be reliable and just like any powder try to keep the loading and seating pressure as close to the same as possible for the best accuracy. Ok as far as your 45cal goes i would suggest starting with 90gr by volume and work up in 5gr increments until you get the best groups BUT NOT to go over 120gr by volume. I would also start with the 195gr Barns bullet GREAT BULLET IN THE 45CAL. As far as your 50cal start with basically same amount of powder 90gr by volume and work and work up from there again not to go over 120gr by volume. With the bullet/ sabot of your choice. Most shooters find that thier rifles do best between 90gr - 110gr of BH209 your rifle will let you know what it likes the best as you will see your groups tighten up. Now if your son is recoil sensitive then just start out at like 75 or 80gr by volume and work him up to around 90gr. Also if he plans to hunt check all your state regs on black powder and muzzleloader regs.
I hope in some little way this might have helped. Good luck and God bless.
Always remember SAFETY FIRST
 
The Remington 700ml bore is a little big. If your gun has the hunter bolt kit and plug, it should ignite blackhorn 209 good.
With the loose bore I suggest you knurl the barnes 195 and sst bullets and use the smooth blue harvester sabots and I used 110 gr of bh209 powder
 
I have a TC G2 .45. I use 90 grains by volume BH 209 with a Precision Rifle Dead Center 195 grain .357 / .45 bullet. Never used anything but BH 209 and that bullet. Shoots great. It wears a Nikon Monarch Gold 1.5-6 X 42 30 mm tube in Talley mounts.
 
Something to consider....The Fury 40cals are .402 if you want a simple way to tightened them up in a looser bore. BH209 will benefit from a bit more bullet weight too. A 200gr and a max load of BH209 is only around 22kpsi.
 
Thanks all for the reply's. The Omega has a "Petes" plug with vent liner. Use Federal 209 primers. I use lot loading pressure on the powder but may make a pressure tamper to really firm it up before loading the bullet/sabot. Tried 10 shots yesterday and got it on paper and a couple 2 shot groups. 5 shots with 60 grains wt. and 5 with 75 grains wt. Really couldn't see much difference in the powder loads. Had 5 each of 300 XTP .452 and some 250 SST red tip. Shot the 60 grain loads under the 300s and the 75 loads under the 250s. My mistake only brought some BCR sabots. Groups were not great, 6" at 100, but loading with the BCR sabots was a lot lighter/easy loading than should be. Spent today making up some powder vials and bullet/sabot vials. Next trip will be straight 70 grains powder for all loadings. Made up some Speer .458X300FP in BCR sabots, my go to combo in my original ML2 50 barrels. Made some more 300 XTP knurled in Harvester smooth black. And some Fury 225 grain 40 cals heavy knurled in Harvester dark blue 40X50 sabots with sub-bases, another fairly accurate loading with very light recoil in my ML2s. Plus some 250 Fury star tip heavy knurled in the smooth black harvesters. Good weather predicted this week so will get back out and see what happens. Get something that shoots half decent will do some fine tuning. Cool weather and my cool rod make shooting this time year pretty easy. Plus working up some more loadings for the 6.5 CM

Not sure how much BH209 will burn in that 24" barrel with lighter bullets.

Have Savage type plug and Hunter bolt nose on the 45 rem 700ML. Will eventually give it a try too. Currently need couple packs of HSB and packs of 40X200 SST before that starts. Have some Fury 225X40 on hand.

As testing progresses will update. Check back.

Thanks all for the comments and experiences.
More are welcome. W
 
Thanks all for the reply's. The Omega has a "Petes" plug with vent liner. Use Federal 209 primers. I use lot loading pressure on the powder but may make a pressure tamper to really firm it up before loading the bullet/sabot. Tried 10 shots yesterday and got it on paper and a couple 2 shot groups. 5 shots with 60 grains wt. and 5 with 75 grains wt. Really couldn't see much difference in the powder loads. Had 5 each of 300 XTP .452 and some 250 SST red tip. Shot the 60 grain loads under the 300s and the 75 loads under the 250s. My mistake only brought some BCR sabots. Groups were not great, 6" at 100, but loading with the BCR sabots was a lot lighter/easy loading than should be. Spent today making up some powder vials and bullet/sabot vials. Next trip will be straight 70 grains powder for all loadings. Made up some Speer .458X300FP in BCR sabots, my go to combo in my original ML2 50 barrels. Made some more 300 XTP knurled in Harvester smooth black. And some Fury 225 grain 40 cals heavy knurled in Harvester dark blue 40X50 sabots with sub-bases, another fairly accurate loading with very light recoil in my ML2s. Plus some 250 Fury star tip heavy knurled in the smooth black harvesters. Good weather predicted this week so will get back out and see what happens. Get something that shoots half decent will do some fine tuning. Cool weather and my cool rod make shooting this time year pretty easy. Plus working up some more loadings for the 6.5 CM

Not sure how much BH209 will burn in that 24" barrel with lighter bullets.

Have Savage type plug and Hunter bolt nose on the 45 rem 700ML. Will eventually give it a try too. Currently need couple packs of HSB and packs of 40X200 SST before that starts. Have some Fury 225X40 on hand.

As testing progresses will update. Check back.

Thanks all for the comments and experiences.
More are welcome. W
Whether it burns it all or not that bullet is still gonna need that inital smack of more powder to orbturate some . At least 90gr id say maybe more . All of a sudden those groups will tighten right up as you go up and up . Once you achieve the powder range , say 90 to 110 or 115 , they will open up again . Thats your window in between for That Bullet/sabot combo . Hotter loads have about always worked better for me . The bores slickness of its finish ive found to be Very Important !!! How much bigger the bullet/sabot combo is than bore size gets more critical too with hotter and hotter loads . .004" is a pretty good number to be at . My ram rods are solid . I knurl about everything too and dont forget to index the sabot in the barrel . I put a small mark on the end of the barrel to aid me with that . A tougher sabot will help too when you start Really chasing velocity !!! Ive also been known to duplex with 777/BH just a bit . Just dont forget to hold on !!! Lol !!!
 
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I shoot 100gr vol with 250gr Bloodline in crush rib sabot in my X7. I haven't really shot it much at distances past 100yds, but it is plenty accurate and and the bullets are devastating on deer. Bloodlines may not be quite as accurate as some other bullets at longer distances, however I'm certain at ranges of 150yds and under I would have zero issues. Most all my shots at game are less than 100yds anyhow.
I have never packed my power down prior to loading the bullet - ever. I just seat firmly and have zero issues. My X7 has factory TC BP, which is outstanding for BH209 in my experience. I think the key is proper headspacing and a clean BP...vs packing down super tight.

No experience with 700's, however my Knight Disc .45's like around 100-110gr, with a 195-200gr pill.
 
I shoot 100gr vol with 250gr Bloodline in crush rib sabot in my X7. I haven't really shot it much at distances past 100yds, but it is plenty accurate and and the bullets are devastating on deer. Bloodlines may not be quite as accurate as some other bullets at longer distances, however I'm certain at ranges of 150yds and under I would have zero issues. Most all my shots at game are less than 100yds anyhow.
I have never packed my power down prior to loading the bullet - ever. I just seat firmly and have zero issues. My X7 has factory TC BP, which is outstanding for BH209 in my experience. I think the key is proper headspacing and a clean BP...vs packing down super tight.

No experience with 700's, however my Knight Disc .45's like around 100-110gr, with a 195-200gr pill.

I shoot BH209in several 50's and a .45 pretty much as WV Hunter states here and have zero issues. All of my guns are CVA and have the vent liner breech plugs. All shoot clean and all shoot very accurate. I think once a person steps outside of shooting with sabots, using full bore bullets, or shooting precious and long range loads the packed powder may become a necessity, but for sabots only a good firm nudge on the powder column is needed. I wonder how much actual powder packing goes on in the deer woods?
 
I shoot BH209in several 50's and a .45 pretty much as WV Hunter states here and have zero issues. All of my guns are CVA and have the vent liner breech plugs. All shoot clean and all shoot very accurate. I think once a person steps outside of shooting with sabots, using full bore bullets, or shooting precious and long range loads the packed powder may become a necessity, but for sabots only a good firm nudge on the powder column is needed. I wonder how much actual powder packing goes on in the deer woods?
Guys powder packing has nothing to do with headspace or out in the woods , Ive never needed a 2nd shot . As soon as i leave my truck im ready to shoot . It has to do with accuracy and shot to shot deviation of it . . The more consistant velocity is the more accurate the rifle is . Thats what this is about . If his nephew has to learn why not the best way ???. It just so happens this is it . And yes the tool comes along too . Usually weighed charges , 2xtra , as well . You boys may want to try this yourselves......
 
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......I have never packed my power down prior to loading the bullet - ever. I just seat firmly and have zero issues......

.......once a person steps outside of shooting with sabots, using full bore bullets, or shooting precious and long range loads the packed powder may become a necessity.......


Packed powder, what is it? Don't know, don't care. It is not necessary to achieve sub moa shooting, which indicates it isn't necessary at all. When ever the full bore bullets are used, they are loaded the same way as the bullets with sabot. Full bore bullets don't require one to load any differently to achieve moa.

Old worn shooters like Mike, and Tom know what is necessary, and that is all that is necessary. No need to bother with the superfluous.
 
Packed powder, what is it? Don't know, don't care. It is not necessary to achieve sub moa shooting, which indicates it isn't necessary at all. When ever the full bore bullets are used, they are loaded the same way as the bullets with sabot. Full bore bullets don't require one to load any differently to achieve moa.

Old worn shooters like Mike, and Tom know what is necessary, and that is all that is necessary. No need to bother with the superfluous.
Many are content with that . Wonderfull . Im not . Im also not a young blood either . To each their own Ron , to each their own .
 
Have some Fury 225X40 on hand.

I would certainly try those. If for no other reason than they are a little larger OD than the SST. I firmly believe BH209 is also more efficient with a heavier bullet. The Fury 40-250gr might be a consideration although a 1-28 might be a tad too slow.
 
Just a reminder I weigh all loads. 70 by weight is 100 by volume in BH209. The 60 by weight is +- 85 by volume. I have had very good shooting in my smoker days with those loads. Only diff was with my 58 Cabellas, it was super with 110 of FFF Swiss. Killed a 14 pt non typical with it and it's on the "bone" on display. It's just been 12 years since I shot smokers and that before BH 209. Trying to get this rifle tuned up for my nephew to start with. Thanks and be safe! W
 

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