Scope Lapping??

[ENCORE50A]

I use an older Sinclair lapping bar, as you are lapping you can see how much it really is needed
As mentioned, Burris rings with the plastic insert are an easy alternative

I would not use the plastic inserts on heavy recoiling rifles. They won't last.

 

[ElDiablo]

Shooting heavy recoiling rifles with heavy scopes I think there is value in using quality rings and lapping the rings to prevent slippage/marring. At the very least it probably can’t hurt.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Heavy recoiling rifles are tough on equipment
Check out this set of Leupold standards.....

 

[V509]

I would not use the plastic inserts on heavy recoiling rifles. They won't last.

I’m a varmint rifle guy when it comes to center fire cartridge rifles
My Blackpowder are open sights, guess I’m out of my league here

 

[Okie Hog]

For many years i installed scopes and sighted in rifles for other folks. i've seen two scopes costing thousands of dollars ruined by failure to lap the rings.

 

[Sandhillshunter]

There is always room for different opinions.it what makes this site pleasant to visit.

Could not agree more!

If you go to any state or national match that requires optics, and survey the shooters on their process for mounting optics, you will get many different answers. While there will be similarities, there will most certainly be differences. As with most things, there are different paths to the finish line.

 

[user 20307]

I have never had an issue with scope mounting without lapping. Learning about lapping just made sense. Also I didn't like my scopes marred up. I didn't want to spend alot on lapping equipment so I looked into the DNZ scope mounts. Granted they are not as adjustable as the 2 piece but they are top notch for my hunting rifles.

 

[alternate]

alternate, come back and talk to me about it after you have mounted a few thousand scopes and have some idea of what you are talking about.

I don't blame you for dodging my question so I'll try it again. You don't seriously think that the scope tube is going to hold the rings at any angle other than in alignment with the dove tails do you? And, no, I don't believe I've mounted a few thousand scopes as I only do it on my personal guns and the custom rifles I build but I've mounted a bunch. In some cases I had to tap the rifle myself and machine custom bases as none were available commercially. Dovetails only go on one way. That's why they exist.

 

[MTY]

I will try to explain the problem with mounting scopes.
Everything made by man is manufactured to a tolerance. It can range from that is good enough to millionths of an inch or the decimal equivalent.
Stacking tolerances are when the tolerances all lean the same direction, all positive or all negative.
The first issue is that many rifles were manufactured by various countries even though they may all be called the same thing.
The second issue is that the holes, whether factory placed or put in by a garage mechanic, most likely are not perfectly aligned.
Thirdly someone else made the bases to fit the ideal receiver contour and hole spacing, and they also produced the bases to a tolerance.
Fourth, someone else made the rings to a plus or minus tolerance.
Standard manufacturing tolerance is .030. If you are talking about a surplus military receiver, that tolerance has most likely been exceeded.
Let us assume that a tolerance of .010 was held throughout the manufacture of everything.
On a two piece base set up, if the front tolerances add up to .040+, and the rear base tolerances add up to .040-, there is a .080 misalignment multiplied by the distance between the rings.
In most instances the manufacturing tolerances negate one another. That is a .010+ base plus a .010- ring cancel each other. But this is not always the case.
I have seen instances where just switching the front and rear bases would decrease misalignment. I have also seen cases where I would have several packages of bases open trying to find one that would negate misalignment.
At the extreme, I have had to drill and contour a piece of steel to fit the receiver, align the axis of the receiver on the mill, and cut the bases to be in alignment with the axis of the receiver.

 

[gle3105]

Several thousand scopes mounted mentioned. Several =5 5x1000 = 5000 scopes mounted.
MTY, Please tell us where you have accomplished this. An armorer maybe? Gunsmith? Etc, etc, .
We can disagree on techniques no problem.
Myself I voiced where my tutelage came from.
A very well known person (deceased) in the optics world. Fortunate I lived close enough to him.
I didn’t see anything mentioned about one piece base & ring combinations as I mentioned earlier as to your methods.
Please detail how you address those since in 5000 scopes mounted they must have crossed your path.

 

[SteveH]

I've said this before, if you are going to go the whole route with lapping and so forth, a good company is Kokopelli for the bars and lapping tools. It will set you back about a $100 for both the lapping tool and scope bars but IMO the Kokopelli bars are far better than the Wheeler's.

 

[MTY]

I am done with this after this post. In no post did I mention that I had mounted several thousand scopes. Now we not only dealing with scope mounting, but also reading comprehension. I give up.

 

[Chundoo]

I found the Kokopelli kit to do a fine job. The main difference is the alignment bars. They're flat on the ends rather than pointed which makes it a lot easier to see any misalignment. I used to use the Wheeler kit but had issues a time or two with 2 piece bases like the old Redfield or Leupold style. This kit fixed the problem.

http://www.kokopelliproducts.com/acckit.htm

 

[gle3105]

From post MTY #18. “alternate, come back and talk to me about it after you have mounted a few thousand scopes and have some idea of what you are talking about.”
So who has mounted a”few thousand scopes “ then?
Not sure why this was posted then if were not meant one had done so.
Somewhat misleading.
Never did see any credentials as the forum appreciates.

I’m writing to various well known scope /ring manufacturers tomorrow and asking them about the procedure MTY describes.
Always willing to learn a better way if it is.

BTW , about reading comprehension in question. Not a gentlemanly comment to make.

 

[Hatchet Jack]

Who's ready for spring turkey season?

 

[03mossy]

There some cabin fever setting in here… we need spring!

 

[Smyrnagc]

Please be nice people! There is enough crap going on in the world. I come here to learn and not read belittling or condescending comments. There is always room for different opinions, it's what makes this site pleasant to visit.

AMEN BROTHER!!! Thank you!

 

[Pathfinder60]

I have trued and lapped every set of rings I've installed for over 30 years. It was something suggested to me by the gunsmith that built my 1st competition bench rifle. I do it because it's what's best for the scope. Scope tubes are thin and made with soft alloys that dent easily. Truing the two and lapping out all the high spots does two things...most importantly aligning the two perfectly stops torquing of the tube body and then maximizing ring to tube surface area. It's all about doing the little things to ensure repeatability. I know 300 meter and 1000 yard bench guns are a far cry from a production muzzleloader which is what the majority of us shoot. But I'm a firm believer that removing as many variables as I reasonably can benefits me and my target. And if I want to sell a scope I've used it doesn't look like it.

 

[birdog]

I have trued and lapped every set of rings I've installed for over 30 years. It was something suggested to me by the gunsmith that built my 1st competition bench rifle. I do it because it's what's best for the scope. Scope tubes are thin and made with soft alloys that dent easily. Truing the two and removing all the high spots does two things...most importantly aligning the two perfectly stops torquing of the tube body and then maximizing ring to tube surface area. It's all about doing the little things to ensure repeatability. I know 300 meter and 1000 yard bench guns are a far cry from a production muzzleloader which is what the majority of us shoot. But I'm a firm believer that removing as many variables as I reasonably can benefits me and my target. And if I want to sell a scope I've used it doesn't look like it.

I could not agree more!

 

[ENCORE50A]

I have trued and lapped every set of rings I've installed for over 30 years. It was something suggested to me by the gunsmith that built my 1st competition bench rifle. I do it because it's what's best for the scope. Scope tubes are thin and made with soft alloys that dent easily. Truing the two and lapping out all the high spots does two things...most importantly aligning the two perfectly stops torquing of the tube body and then maximizing ring to tube surface area. It's all about doing the little things to ensure repeatability. I know 300 meter and 1000 yard bench guns are a far cry from a production muzzleloader which is what the majority of us shoot. But I'm a firm believer that removing as many variables as I reasonably can benefits me and my target. And if I want to sell a scope I've used it doesn't look like it.

THAT .............