Shot the Optima pistol today!

[03mossy]

First the bad… why the heck didn’t I get one of these sooner! This thing is damn fun to shoot.

I wanted to continue to shoot my .300 win mag to prepare for an elk hunt this fall. What better to do to kill time while the barrel cooled than shoot the new pistol. Started with 50 grains 777 then went right to 60. Shooting 200 grains SST blems in blue 50/40 sabots. Took only a few shots to get the scope dialed in. Very impressed with the accuracy so far. The attached pic is a 3 shot group at 50 yards.

Easy to load, easy to clean and an absolute blast to shoot! Anybody on the fence about getting one of these just do it.

 

[Smyrnagc]

Sweet! Good shootin!

 

[deermanok]

Nice work there. The pistol sure is a blast to shoot.

 

[Matthew323]

First the bad… why the heck didn’t I get one of these sooner! This thing is damn fun to shoot.

I wanted to continue to shoot my .300 win mag to prepare for an elk hunt this fall. What better to do to kill time while the barrel cooled than shoot the new pistol. Started with 50 grains 777 then went right to 60. Shooting 200 grains SST blems in blue 50/40 sabots. Took only a few shots to get the scope dialed in. Very impressed with the accuracy so far. The attached pic is a 3 shot group at 50 yards.

Easy to load, easy to clean and an absolute blast to shoot! Anybody on the fence about getting one of these just do it.

Will your state let you elk hunt with the pistol? With a 400 grain lead conical it's fully capable of taking an elk. No Excuses has lead conicals in sabots that go up to 425 grains, I think.

 

[03mossy]

Not interested in hunting Elk with an ML pistol quite yet. Maybe someday but this year I want my 300 win mag in my hands.

 

[HC]

Absolutely

 

[MrTom]

Will your state let you elk hunt with the pistol? With a 400 grain lead conical it's fully capable of taking an elk. No Excuses has lead conicals in sabots that go up to 425 grains, I think.

This is right out of the manual for the pistol.....

I'm not sure if there's any division with conicals either alone or in sabots, but the 425 grain may not be permissible and might be a bit much. Note too that pellets are not recommended for use with conicals: for those who might think of trying the combination.

We need to remember that this is a pistol and while a couple people here might have the benefit of a brake, the vast majority will not, so those 400 grain conicals with any load over about 50-60 grains will be brutal in the recoil department. Maybe to the point of even having negative impacts on the scopes.

Mossy's 200 grain load is what I would call very light, possibly at the bottom end of the hunting sort of load. I shoot a 225 grain pill with 90 grains [v] of 290 powder and the recoil is very manageable. I have spent plenty of club time shooting 325 grain and 350 grain bullets in sabots and can say that those days are in the past even when the charge is dropped down to 70 [v] grains....bruised palms is not a fun thing. And the accuracy is terrible.....I think the short barrel is partly to blame in not getting the heavier, longer bullet stable before leaving the barrel.

For those new to these pistols keep in mind that reoil and bullet weight/charge weight go hand in hand. More = more. I am also of the mind set that these pistols are deer guns, not elk guns. Even with a conical, the short barrel prohibits sufficient velocity for elk sized animals to be considered ethical. Regardless of bullet used I would likely give serious pause before taking a medium ranged, 50 to 100 yds, poke at a real large mulie. I know first hand that a 225 grain Barnes XPB and a 240 grain XTP will slap white-tailed deer dead on the spot inside 50 yards. I just don't see the need for a heavy conical.

 

[Matthew323]

I didn't know what 03mossy's plans were for his pistol. I thought he might be one who was considering converting the pistol to a carbine. If that was so, then No Excuses has both .50 caliber lead conical bullets, plus lead bullets in sabots.

I do know that a member here related recently (last 6 months?) that when he read the 400 grain lead conical restriction in his CVA Manual for his RIFLE, he proceeded to call CVA to inquire about it. Whereupon CVA informed him that the reason for the 400 grain restriction, "Was because we at CVA never bothered to test anything heavier than a 400 grain bullet." I believe this member, cannot recall his name, stated that he has often shot bullets heavier than 400 grains out of his CVA rifle without exhibiting any signs of over pressure. Not saying that is necessarily the best thing to do, buttttttttt? He did it.

That being said, I should have known better than to try relying on my memory. The following is what No Excuses has to offer that MIGHT be shot out of a Optima V2 pistol for elk hunting. If you were so inclined to do so.

.50 caliber × 420 grain lead conical???

Lead Bullets in .50 caliber Sabots

1. .50 caliber sabot × .400" flat base
175/200/225/250/275/300 grains

2. .50 caliber sabot × .451" flat base
175/200/225/250/275/300 grains

3. .50 caliber sabot × .451" boat tail
300/350/400 grains

Sorry about any confusion, or misunderstanding in my above post.

Bruce

 

[deermanok]

I don't know Bruce, I haven't shot anything over 240 grains in my pistol. Don't really think I'd like going much more than 250 grains tops. Even with the carbine stock.

 

[Matthew323]

I don't see why a 300 grain lead conical, shouldn't kill an elk ethically out to 50-75 yards, if the shooter is competent. Especially, the No Excuses .50 caliber sabot with a 300 grain flat base .400 diameter lead bullet. Its BC should allow for a very flat trajectory out to 75 yards.

As far as the pain from shooting heavier bullets in a Optima V2 pistol, START LOBBYING some of the major grip manufacturers for a set of WELL DESIGNED, COMFORTABLE AMBIDEXTROUS GRIPS, that will allow a shooter to take advantage of the V2 pistols potential. The Optima V2 pistol HAS ENORMOUS POTENTIAL LOCKED INSIDE OF IT DUE TO A TERRIBLE PISTOL GRIP.

Because, right now a V2 pistol owner only has a couple of options.

1. Make a comfortable grip out of wood yourself.
2. Turn it into a carbine.
3. Have a muzzle brake installed.

4. Accept it the way it is, and ONLY SHOOT BULLETS WEIGHING LESS THAN 250 GRAINS. And, from what I have been reading here, not very many 250 grain bullets in a row before the pain of the pistol grip says "Quit Shooting!!!"

I highly recommend the muzzle brake from LR Customs. It will cost $225.00, plus shipping. Add another $85.00 if you want the second option for the brake (conical or sabot). Thr base price includes a funnel & a T-handle loading tool. A knurled muzzle cap costs extra.

Levi Reed, the owner of LR Customs told me on the phone when he called me to tell me the brakes, the custom ramrods, & the muzzle cap were ready, that he was initially VERY RELUCTANT to shoot the pistol. Both, because of what I had told him that I had learned here from shooters like Mr. Tom, and from what he learned from research on the Optima V2 pistol before he began work on my pistol.

If you go to LR Customs' website you can see images of Levi. He is a big, muscular guy.

He shot the V2 pistol with a 360 grain saboted bullet, both before, and after the brakes were installed. He described the before recoil as a very heavy .44 Magnum level of recoil. He described the after recoil as a soft .38 Special level of recoil.

I will be the first person to admit that the muzzle brake makes the pistol look both clunky as can be; and cool in a tactical kind of way.

Without having yet to handle it with a brake installed, I KNOW it's balance has been shifted forward a good deal because of the extra weight, thus making it harder to hold.

That's why when I decided to go in the direction of modifying the Optima V2 pistol the way that I have, I knew it was going to HAVE TO BE AN ALL, OR NOTHING, COMMITMENT. Without the COMPLETE combination of components that will make up the entirety of my Optima V2 pistol's shooting platform, I would be unhappy with the way the components worked separately. Or, in partial combination with one another. Only as a whole set of components, will they form a whole that combines to create a sum greater than the whole.

I read EVERYTHING I could about the Optima V2 pistol before I consumated the trade with MtMonkey for mine. I talked to Doc White BEFORE THE TRADE, to make sure he was willing to craft a set of Javelina stocks for the V2 pistol. I wasn't even considering a muzzle brake, until a conversation with MtMonkey led me to LR Customs. It was Encore50A that convinced me that a MZ REX2 muzzle brake would turn the Javelina stocked Optima V2 pistol from a beast into a pussy cat. So, another $500.00 invested.

When finished, I will have a very versatile hunting pistol. Something, that I most definitely DID NOT START OUT WITH.

Someday I have this dream of hunting elk. I can think of no more satisfying way to accomplish that than with my Javelina V2 pistol. Maybe a flintlock longrifle, or a longbow.

03mossy, good luck with your elk hunt,whatever weapon that you choose!!!!!!!

 

[MrTom]

When finished, I will have a very versatile hunting pistol. Something, that I most definitely DID NOT START OUT WITH.

I have had three of these pistols. All scoped with the Leapers 2 X 7 scope. I am here to tell you that the accuracy of all three of these has been uncanny at 50 yards and damned sweet at 100. I own a nearly complete collection of the Ruger Blackhawk models and these three Optima pistols have had out of the box accuracy on par with any of these Rugers at the same ranges of 50 and 100 yards. In my experience you'll not extract a nickle's worth more accuracy with the brakes or the stocks.

In my opinion, you started out with a pistol able to deliver superb accuracy and spending all that money will not deliver to you a pistol any more accurate than mine or deermanok's or mossy's. It might reduce some recoil due to the break and all the additional weight but you'll not see a gain in the accuracy department and as I have said, it's already excellent.

I like the clean lines and uncluttered appearance of the Optima pistol even with a scope. This, along with the accuracy comment, is where we disagree mostly.

 

[Matthew323]

I don't believe that I ever indicated in the above post that I thought my pistol was going to be more accurate after the mods, and the money spent, than it was before. What I did say, and without having yet to fire a single shot out of it, is that my finished, modified, Optima V2 pistol will be more versatile than a stock, out of the box Optima V2 pistol will.

And, I fully stand by that statement. I feel that I can do so because of decades of shooting handguns from a Crossman Mark1 .22 caliber CO2 pellet pistol (age 10), up to a Ruger Blackhawk .44 Magnum revolver. Most of my centerfire handgun shooting has been with a 1911 .45 ACP semi-automatic pistol.

All I had to do is read post, after post, after post, in multiple threads, on at least 6 different forums, taking in the collective knowledge of more than two dozen shooters, ALL of whom, to a man, said basically the same thing.

Shooting bullets weighing more than 250-275 grains, lead conicals & saboted bullets alike, depending upon a particular shooters tolerance for recoil, generated enough pain, because of the terrible design of the V2's pistol grip, that after as few as 2 shots, and as I recall, no more than 12 shots, caused them TO STOP SHOOTING.

I can't afford to damage my shoulder joints by shooting shoulder mounted arms. Unless there's a civil war going on, and I have to defend myself & mine in order to stay alive.

That's why I am willing to invest what I am sure now, and was absolutely sure when I started modifying the V2 pistol, was/is an unreasonable amount of money to spend, in the eyes of most of the members here, on what was a $289.00 muzzleloader brand new at the time I made the trade with MtMonkey.

WHO CARES? I don't. It's my ONLY gun. I don't own any others. So, I will spend what I need to in order to accomplish MY END GOALS. Which are very close to being fufilled.

Thanks

 

[Bad Karma]

I don't believe that I ever indicated in the above post that I thought my pistol was going to be more accurate after the mods, and the money spent, than it was before. What I did say, and without having yet to fire a single shot out of it, is that my finished, modified, Optima V2 pistol will be more versatile than a stock, out of the box Optima V2 pistol will.

And, I fully stand by that statement. I feel that I can do so because of decades of shooting handguns from a Crossman Mark1 .22 caliber CO2 pellet pistol (age 10), up to a Ruger Blackhawk .44 Magnum revolver. Most of my centerfire handgun shooting has been with a 1911 .45 ACP semi-automatic pistol.

All I had to do is read post, after post, after post, in multiple threads, on at least 6 different forums, taking in the collective knowledge of more than two dozen shooters, ALL of whom, to a man, said basically the same thing.

Shooting bullets weighing more than 250-275 grains, lead conicals & saboted bullets alike, depending upon a particular shooters tolerance for recoil, generated enough pain, because of the terrible design of the V2's pistol grip, that after as few as 2 shots, and as I recall, no more than 12 shots, caused them TO STOP SHOOTING.

I can't afford to damage my shoulder joints by shooting shoulder mounted arms. Unless there's a civil war going on, and I have to defend myself & mine in order to stay alive.

That's why I am willing to invest what I am sure now, and was absolutely sure when I started modifying the V2 pistol, was/is an unreasonable amount of money to spend, in the eyes of most of the members here, on what was a $289.00 muzzleloader brand new at the time I made the trade with MtMonkey.

WHO CARES? I don't. It's my ONLY gun. I don't own any others. So, I will spend what I need to in order to accomplish MY END GOALS. Which are very close to being fufilled.

Thanks

The LR brake is probably the best and first modification that should be made to one of these pistols allowing them to reach elk killing power levels without hurting the shooter nearly as much as the shooter.

side note. I happened to be up in Craig on business last week and stopped by the pawn shop in town. After I enquired about cap and or powder availability one of the proprietors told me about this custom muzzleloader shop nearby. Imagine my surprise when she told me it was LR... I’ll definitely be making excuses for another trip to Craig...

 

[dbowling]

I got rid of my Optima pistol because the grips sucked, they imparted all the recoil to your wrist/hands.. Ive got 2 homemade pistols a T/C Black Diamond with a cut down walnut stock and a Knight Disc pistol with a cut down thumbhole stock.. Both have less felt recoil then the Optima did shooting a heavier 300 gr bullet and either 90 gr 7772f or 80-90gr of BH209.. They are very enjoable to shoot with heavier loads, did have to put a piece of foam inside thumbhole on Knight as it would bite you.
My Optima pistol was very accurate but was not enjoyable to shoot, grips were just unpleasant to me.

 

[Matthew323]

The LR brake is probably the best and first modification that should be made to one of these pistols allowing them to reach elk killing power levels without hurting the shooter nearly as much as the shooter.

side note. I happened to be up in Craig on business last week and stopped by the pawn shop in town. After I enquired about cap and or powder availability one of the proprietors told me about this custom muzzleloader shop nearby. Imagine my surprise when she told me it was LR... I’ll definitely be making excuses for another trip to Craig...

Get Doc White's phone number off of the White Muzzleloading website. If you plan to visit LR Customs, then call Doc & see if he has time for you to visit. He is as knowledgeable of a person, on all aspects of muzzleloading, from the hand cannon, to the latest inlines, as one could hope to find. You won't regret the trip. He lives only 20 minutes away from LR Customs in Roosevelt, Utah.

 

[Matthew323]

I got rid of my Optima pistol because the grips sucked, they imparted all the recoil to your wrist/hands.. Ive got 2 homemade pistols a T/C Black Diamond with a cut down walnut stock and a Knight Disc pistol with a cut down thumbhole stock.. Both have less felt recoil then the Optima did shooting a heavier 300 gr bullet and either 90 gr 7772f or 80-90gr of BH209.. They are very enjoable to shoot with heavier loads, did have to put a piece of foam inside thumbhole on Knight as it would bite you.
My Optima pistol was very accurate but was not enjoyable to shoot, grips were just unpleasant to me.

It amazes me that CVA let the Optima V2 pistol go to market with such a terrible pistol grip installed on it.

1. They knew that the action was safe up to a 400 grain lead conical, because it had already been tested on the various rifle platforms.

So, they simply designed a pistol that looked like an already successful platform, the Thompson/Center Contender.

Hoping to piggyback on the Contenders success.

Postulate: CVA didn't KNOW that the pistol grip sucked, because NO ONE at CVA ever shot it?

2. CVA shot the Optima V2 pistol, and quickly realized, just like all the shooters in every post that I read online did; that bullets weighing more than 240-250 grains were going to hurt the shooters hand on the first shot.

Heavy lead conicals weighing over 300 grains with wide meplats, such as an elk hunter might want to utilize, were simply unacceptable to any but the most masochistic shooter. And, even those types of shooters could not endure more than a couple of rounds at a time before having to stop to give their hand a rest.

Who wants a bruised hand, or carpal tunnel syndrome from their pistol? This is supposed to be FUN!!!!

Postulate: CVA left the terrible pistol grip on the Optima V2 because of potential, down the road, liability reasons?

KNOWING that any bullet weight over 240-250 grains was painful to shoot, reduced the potential for a lawsuit exponentially.

In other words, CVA DOES NOT WANT ITS CUSTOMERS SHOOTING HEAVY BULLETS OUT OF THE OPTIMA V2 PISTOL!!!!!!

There are other scenarios, but in my opinion, the two above make the most sense to me.

 

[deermanok]

I just don't think that it was intended to use rifle type loads.
After all, it is a pistol, albeit a large pistol.
For the average person, someone like me for example, I'm 5'9 and weigh 165 pounds. 50 to 70 grains of powder and a 240 grain bullet is just enough whomp.
Take a big guy, 6 foot, 250 pounds my load would be kid stuff for him.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not a one size fits all deal.

 

[03mossy]

I do love shooting conicals but I have no intention of shooting them through this pistol. I have better tools for that job. I bought this as a glorified plinker and to deer hunt my woods behind my a house where the max shot is 60 yards. I want to shoot this for fun with nice easy loads while I work up more serious loads in other guns. For one reason or another I have lost the joy and excitement of muzzleloading that I used to have. It all just got to serious finding the perfect loads, sizing bullets, etc. With this I just want to pull the trigger and make some smoke. Between this gun and my son loving his new Wolverine I think we will have some fun.

 

[Matthew323]

I spent a good deal of time on the phone with Doc White after I first contacted MtMonkey to propose the trade. Doc's conclusion, after looking at the pistol on muzzleloaders.com's website, was that if the action was capable of handling rifle sized loads, then why wasn't the pistol designed for them from the get go?

In my experience, Doc is a no nonsense, no bull***t kind of man. He tells you how it is, not how you want it to be.

Whether, or not, someone CHOOSES to shoot heavy for caliber lead conical bullets out of a Optima V2 pistol, is just that, a CHOICE. Or, it SHOULD BE.

But, when the grip of the pistol effectively removes that option from the shooter, it SEVERELY LIMITS the pistol's versatility.

I think that most of us here recognize that, regardless of how many Optima V2 pistols are sold, the vast majority of buyers will stick with saboted bullets in the 180-250 grain range.

And, I agree with you deermanok, that the deer hunting market was CVA's thrust for this pistol. Particularly, with pistol weight, saboted bullets.

It's the handful of hunters that desire to hunt moose & elk that are stuck having to make serious mods to a V2 pistol in order to bring it up to its full capabilities.

And, I submit, even though those hunters won't number in the thousands & thousands, they ARE the ones that would have been getting their images posted all over the internet, as well as written up in hunting magazines.

Furthermore, after the first blush of newness & uniqueness for the Optima V2 pistol wore off, the GUN WRITERS, who were initially VERY enthusiastic about the pistol, dropped it like a hot rock. Because, how can you promote a hunting pistol that with a hefty charge of the wonder powder of the day, BH209, won't even let you practice shooting for more than a dozen shots before one just HAS TO STOP SHOOTING in order not to severely bruise their hand?

Which is why interest in the Optima V2 pistol fell off fairly quickly, and eventually (5 years?) CVA dropped it from the catalog.

The thing that I find STUNNING, is that when muzzleloaders.com convinced CVA to return to production of the Optima V2 pistol in limited runs that only they would sell, CVA failed to correct the glaring defect, the grooved pistol grip, which is what led to its demise in the first place.

Arrogance? Stupidity? Thoughtlessness?

The only reason I have posted so often on this subject is that I believe that with a proper, comfortable, ambidextrous, no finger grooves, laminated wood, factory pistol grip, laminated wood forearm, with the muzzle factory threaded with 5/8"-24 threads for a muzzle brake, and a knurled stainless steel muzzle cap; the Optima V2 pistol has the potential to be one of CVA's best selling muzzleloaders.

Period.

 

[03mossy]

All I know is I had a blast shooting this gun the first range session and expect many many more outings in the future. The grip seamed just fine to me.