Shots fired .50 TC Renegade

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I too have had excellent results with prb. But I don't think there is any denying that a conical in the same caliber will give you more killing distance. I just bought the TC Renegade 1/48 for that reason. I think I will be able to make honest kills to 150 yards or more with a great plains bullet and my home made skinner peep sight. Plumberron and I shot yesterday and was able to get 2 1/2 group at 100 yards. First time shooting that distance with this gun. Will shoot 150 yds next week if possible.

I don't know if a prb will kill a deer at 150 yards. Ive never done it.

Anyone ever kill a deer at 150 yards with a prb?????
 
99% of all my deer are bow range. I am not after how far can i shoot but how close can i get. sorry i didn't mean to start something
 
99% of all my deer are bow range. I am not after how far can i shoot but how close can i get. sorry i didn't mean to start something
No sweat brother. My shots are always close because that's the way I hunt. I have a .50 prb gun for all those years and hunted within what I thought was its limitation. Less than 100 yards. Just wondering if anyone ever shot a deer out further than that with a prb. Maybe I underestimate the prb.
 
I used to shoot the Hornady 410 gr 50 cal back about 15 years ago. The 410 was a solid flat nose. It appeared to be a great ML bullet. It was really accurate. I shot one 3 shot group that measured .404, but after some close calls almost losing a few deer I changed my mind.
The bullets I am going to post almost lost me a couple deer. In my opinion they over expand and reduce penetration. The 385 shot very well too but because of the hollow point I could not recommend this bullet.
i remember your "accuracy" video being a proponent of pure lead for accuracy... What weight lead bullet do you think would be best as a deer thumper (50 cal)? Do the 50 cal T/C renegade/hawkens spit them fast enough for full penetration broadside..??? (i used 300 grain meister hard cast in my 45cal air rifle to get the job done, lighter bullets, softer & hollow points didn't penetrate worth a hoot & left virtually no blood trail) I like 2 holes myself, as one hole just don't leave good enough trail if they run in these east tn. thick grown timber... long story,,, I need to buy some 50 cal bullets for a t/c thats on the way & will be for deer this fall anyway... (out to 100yds max)... how heavy can i go? (do the soft heavies just flatten out & not penetrate?) thanks much!!
 
I too have had excellent results with prb. But I don't think there is any denying that a conical in the same caliber will give you more killing distance. I just bought the TC Renegade 1/48 for that reason. I think I will be able to make honest kills to 150 yards or more with a great plains bullet and my home made skinner peep sight. Plumberron and I shot yesterday and was able to get 2 1/2 group at 100 yards. First time shooting that distance with this gun. Will shoot 150 yds next week if possible.

I don't know if a prb will kill a deer at 150 yards. Ive never done it.

Anyone ever kill a deer at 150 yards with a prb?????
i remember " idaho lewis" shot a prb group at some distance on the you tube video & found a bullet in the snow & dirt virtually intact... & i remember thinking whatever the distance was was too far for hunting with it.. (i want to say it was 200 or 300yds),, maybe he will tell us,,, I hate those videos were deleted from you tube!
 
i remember " idaho lewis" shot a prb group at some distance on the you tube video & found a bullet in the snow & dirt virtually intact... & i remember thinking whatever the distance was was too far for hunting with it.. (i want to say it was 200 or 300yds),, maybe he will tell us,,, I hate those videos were deleted from you tube!
Patched Ball Killing Distances

.45 caliber = 100 yards
.50 caliber = 120 yards
.54 caliber = 135 yards
.58 caliber = 150 yards
.60 caliber = 160 yards
.62 caliber = 170 yards
.66 caliber = 180 yards
.69 caliber = 200 yards

The above distances are assuming.....
1. 0.012"-0.016" deep, square bottom, or round bottom grooves in barrel
2. 1:48" to 1:72" rates of twist for balls
3. 18th & 19th Century front & rear sights
4. Shooter's ability to see at distances
5. Ordinary powder charges for caliber to achieve accuracy. The heavier the ball, and the slower the rate of twist, the larger the powder charge necessary to achieve stability and accuracy.

Most shooters CANNOT SEE to ethically kill for calibers .54 and larger. In other words, the rifle has more potential than the shooter with 18th/19th Century sights can take advantage of. The other thing is estimating range. I have learned that I am capable of getting "close" when I am constantly in the field estimating ranges. But, close is not good enough for me. For me to be an ethical hunter in 2021, I need to carry some form of rangefinder, and use it IMMEDIATELY before pulling the trigger.
 
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I like a .58 caliber and larger ball because it is going to have enough mass to kill anything in North America, including grizzly bears if confronted by one when hunting elk or moose.

If building a new sidelock rifle today, and money was not an object.....

1. Rice, Special Order, 4140CM steel, 1.330" breech × 0.950" waist × 1.190" muzzle, Jaeger style octagon-round profile, 21" long, .62 caliber. Forsyth rifled, 1:84" twist, 8 lands & grooves, 0.04867" wide lands × 0.19468" wide grooves. Approximate cost, $400.00 for the barrel, plus $ 250.00 for the breech plug and tang, plus a $500.00 up charge for the oversized piece of 4140CM steel necessary to allow for sufficient barrel wall thicknesses when machining the integral scope bases.

2. Rice, flint, Manton, hooked breech plug w/integral hook, Manton-style powder chamber, and 3/4"-16 × 0.625" thread journal.

3. Rice, hooked, 6" beavertail tang w/integral 1.330" face plate that is pierced and fitted to the breech plug's hook.

4. Ron Scott, English walnut stock blank from Turkey. Wide enough for both left and right ambidextrous cheekpieces. Approximate cost, $500.00

Profiled into an English Sporting Rifle halfstock with an Alexander Henry forearm. Minimal drop at the comb and heel so as to co-align the iron sights and the telescopic sight.

5. Kick-eez Magnum recoil pad installed at a 13.00" length of pull. Approximate cost installed, $150.00

6. Chris Laubach, 1740's, German flintlock. Tuned by Brad Emig. $375.00, plus $75.00 for tuning.

7. 11.5" long trigger bar with "ears" for pinning a single trigger. Double bolted to the 6" beavertail tang.

8. Single trigger with 3 pound trigger pull.

9. Steel, English style triggerguard with extra-large bow that will allow use of a gloved trigger finger. Attached to trigger bar with machine screws.

10. Steel underrib secured by screws to barrel. One 3/8" internal diameter forward ramrod pipe secured to the underrib by silver solder.

11. Steel 3/8" internal diameter entry ramrod pipe.

12. One piece, 3/8" diameter, black, hard anodized, 7075-T6 aluminum ramrod with concave faces machined on both ends to match a 0.615" diameter ball. Both ends drilled and tapped for 10-32 threads. (2 each) Length to match barrel with muzzle brake installed. Approximate cost, $100.00 each.

13. Two, GrovTec, GTHM289, Heavy Duty, Push Button, 9/16"-18 threaded, black nitrided stainless steel, sling swivel bases. One installed near the end of the Alexander Henry forearm, and the other installed in the buttstock. $10.00

14. Pair, GrovTec, GTSW92, Heavy Duty, Push Button, Twist Lock, 1", sling swivels. $25.00

15. Galco, #MAN-B, Rifleman's Sling, 1", black, nylon webbing with shoulder pad (259g). $$45.00

16. Two, Spartan Precision Equipment, Classic Gunsmith Adapters, in brass, (23g). One installed just to the rear of the forward sling swivel base on the underside of the forearm. The second adapter installed at the rifle's balance point. Both adapters to be filed flat to match the contours of the Alexander Henry forearm. $100.00

Spartan Precision Equipment.....
a.) Javelin Bipod, std.length legs (133g)
b.) Davros ball head (115g) installed on...
c.) Really Right Stuff MC-45, MK2-3/8" threads, carbon fiber monopod (908g) $495.00
d.) Davros Pro ball head (255g) installed on...
e.) Ascent tripod (1370g)
f.) Light Duty Optics Adapter, three (21g) for cell phones, small digital cameras, rangefinders $60.00
g.) Heavy Duty Optics Adapter, two (65g) for binoculars, spotting scopes, full size cameras with telephoto lenses. $70.00
h.) Trekking Pole Handle, two (51g) $

17. LR Customs, Special Order, .62 caliber, MZ REX2 Patched Ball Muzzle Brake with loading funnel, & T-handle loading tool. $285.00

18. LR Customs...machine muzzle of Rice barrel for 1"-24 threads, and fabricate custom, tapered, knurled, 4140CM steel, muzzle cap to match taper of flared muzzle on Rice barrel. $125.00

19. Hard black nitride finish all steel parts, except springs in flintlock.

20. Dove's Custom Guns..... Machine, integral to the top flat of the octagonal breech, 0.100" deep × 2-5 each, Talley, scope ring dovetail bases with recoil shoulders. Capable of accepting any Talley Signature Series scope ring. Approximate cost, $500.00

21. There's no sense building a rifle capable of 200 grain powder charges, and 200 yard killing power, if you're going to skimp on the scope. Any decent piece of glass with the ability to truly gather light at dawn and dusk, is going to set the shooter back at least $2,000.00. Probably, closer to 3 grand.

Schmidt & Bender, Exos, 1-8×24mm with FD7 illuminated reticle $2,800.00
Talley, 30mm, Q-D lever scope rings $125.00

22. Front & rear sights? That's a big question? As far as I am concerned with my eyes, traditional sights are out. For me, a tall base silver soldered to the barrel sufficient to allow the front sight when installed in a 7/8" wide female dovetail machined into the base, that the front sight will adequately clear the muzzle brake.

I would want the front sight itself to be composed of two pieces. A thick steel base that was drilled and tapped for Mil-Spec, AR-15, 8-36 threads. Second, would be one of the chevron shaped front sight posts from Blitzkrieg Components. In particular, I like the one with the white stripes, and the tritium dot. Just have to shorten the 8-36 threaded post in order to make it work for the type of situation I envision. $65.00 (chevron sight post w/tool)

For a rear sight, I would be hoping to install a Lowell Harrer ghost ring rear sight that mounts on the beavertail tang with two screws. If done properly, I believe that the lollipop of the ghost ring would not interfere with the ocular bell of the scope when the scope was installed on the barrel with the
 
I was reading one of the Lewis and Clark expedition journal entries once & never forgot that more than once they shot brown or yellow bears (Grizzlies) and did not kill them & they "escaped" or pursued the shooters! Once 2 men shot 2 bears, one got away, & the other was shot by both men again & was still not dead,, so it had 4 balls in it. (One of the common guns was a smooth bore 69 caliber,, though it didn't tell what they shot the critters with. oh yeah,, if you like that FD7 reticle, you should try one of the trijicon scopes with green dot.. i got a 3-9 that is absolutely one of the best, clearest hunting scopes i own for around $700. & it would be plenty for ML ranges... (I don't say this lightly as i've owned 3 nightforce scopes, 2 March scopes , zeiss & swarovski & a surprisingly excellent chinese scope that just cost $1200 & had perfect milirad tracking & great glass too!) i've never used a S&B though i know they are great, but i wouldn't put one near a black powder rifle...;>) one thing i was wondering,, if you had the S&B scope, why would you bother with front & rear iron sights??? if you knocked the scope out of whack, as strong/heavy as those S&B's are,, the stock would probably be broken in half
 
I was reading one of the Lewis and Clark expedition journal entries once & never forgot that more than once they shot brown or yellow bears (Grizzlies) and did not kill them & they "escaped" or pursued the shooters! Once 2 men shot 2 bears, one got away, & the other was shot by both men again & was still not dead,, so it had 4 balls in it. (One of the common guns was a smooth bore 69 caliber,, though it didn't tell what they shot the critters with. oh yeah,, if you like that FD7 reticle, you should try one of the trijicon scopes with green dot.. i got a 3-9 that is absolutely one of the best, clearest hunting scopes i own for around $700. & it would be plenty for ML ranges... (I don't say this lightly as i've owned 3 nightforce scopes, 2 March scopes , zeiss & swarovski & a surprisingly excellent chinese scope that just cost $1200 & had perfect milirad tracking & great glass too!) i've never used a S&B though i know they are great, but i wouldn't put one near a black powder rifle...;>) one thing i was wondering,, if you had the S&B scope, why would you bother with front & rear iron sights??? if you knocked the scope out of whack, as strong/heavy as those S&B's are,, the stock would probably be broken in half
Keep in mind they were most likely shooting smooth bores in less than timely circumstance (Charging /walking up in thick brush) or walking in on mom with the kids ! Not for nuthing with the supply of lead/powder being problematic I bet there wasn"t a lot of target practice either , just a lot of changing shorts ! /Ed
 
I was reading one of the Lewis and Clark expedition journal entries once & never forgot that more than once they shot brown or yellow bears (Grizzlies) and did not kill them & they "escaped" or pursued the shooters! Once 2 men shot 2 bears, one got away, & the other was shot by both men again & was still not dead,, so it had 4 balls in it.

The 'white' bear was such a problem for the corps; Lewis ordered the men to quit shooting them. Lewis, himself barely escaped a griz by running into the river, and being lucky, very lucky. Just a few escapades, and the corps avoided shooting them thereafter.
 
I think that one of the main problems on the L&C Expedition was that most of their rifles were in .50 caliber, which was considered more than adequate East of the Mississippi River. I don't recall how many .54 caliber rifles that they carried along, but compared to the total number of men in the expedition, it couldn't have been too many. I know that they were equipped with a good number of smoothbore guns for the voyagers that were hired to haul the boats as far upriver as possible before they started out on foot/horseback.

I know that they were suprised at how much lead the grizzly bears were absorbing. I imagine that in those days of virtually undisturbed wilderness, a grizzly bear might grow to nearly the size of an Alaskan brown/coastal grizzly bear.

Not to be trifled with without a proper size patched ball over a substantial powder charge.
 
i remember your "accuracy" video being a proponent of pure lead for accuracy... What weight lead bullet do you think would be best as a deer thumper (50 cal)? Do the 50 cal T/C renegade/hawkens spit them fast enough for full penetration broadside..??? (i used 300 grain meister hard cast in my 45cal air rifle to get the job done, lighter bullets, softer & hollow points didn't penetrate worth a hoot & left virtually no blood trail) I like 2 holes myself, as one hole just don't leave good enough trail if they run in these east tn. thick grown timber... long story,,, I need to buy some 50 cal bullets for a t/c thats on the way & will be for deer this fall anyway... (out to 100yds max)... how heavy can i go? (do the soft heavies just flatten out & not penetrate?) thanks much!!

Actually since I started to shoot patched bullets I have hardened them. The 50 is at 6 to 7 bhn. The 45 is at 8.5 bhn. I never did gave much luck with pure.
This bullet is one I took out of my elk last year. The last one is a 45 cal taken out of a deer.
The 50 only lost 4 grains.
 

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The 'white' bear was such a problem for the corps; Lewis ordered the men to quit shooting them. Lewis, himself barely escaped a griz by running into the river, and being lucky, very lucky. Just a few escapades, and the corps avoided shooting them thereafter.
you must have "tales of the mountain men" too! ;>) a good read.
 
Actually since I started to shoot patched bullets I have hardened them. The 50 is at 6 to 7 bhn. The 45 is at 8.5 bhn. I never did gave much luck with pure.
About 15 years ago I came across 90lb of wheel weights. I had a friend make me round balls and thats what I shot deer with. Always a nice hole. No bullets recovered.
 
You always hear on traditional forums that balls should ALWAYS be cast out of pure lead so that the ball can expand as much as possible at the low velocities that black powder generates.

And, because pure lead is an absolute requirement for the ball to engage in the rifling.

EXCEPT, it is NOT the ball that engages the rifling, it's THE PATCH that does so. It's true that the softer the lead ball is, the easier it is for the weave of the patch material to be impressed into the surface of the ball. Which definitely helps in making for an accurate patch/ball combination.

I know for sure that I played around casting .445" balls, with wheelweight metal that my brother and I picked up out of the streets of Baltimore (1970-1972), mainly found in the gutters, that I melted down, skimmed out the steel clips & the slag, and added 50/50 to pure lead.

Together, we probably brought home 40-50 pounds of wheelweights over a 2 year period.

And, as far as I recall, those balls shot just as well as the pure lead ones. Otherwise, I would have memories of the wheelweight metal/pure lead balls being a disaster. And, they weren't.
 
Yep, the pure lead thing sounds nice but I know WWs work. The expansion isnt that important to me because animals die when they have a hole through the boiler room. As far as shooting accurately never a problem. Like you if there would have been a problem a red flag would have gone up and that would have been the end of the WW.
 

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