Should I shoot a T/C Grey Hawk?

[NatureNick]

I have a Grey Hawk in like-new condition, with both #11 and Musket Cap nipples. I believe I have a 1:48" twist, 24" barrel. I got it in trade about 10 years ago for some work I did for a widow who needed to liquidate her late husband's arsenal; had to take this rifle in addition to others since her deal was I had to get ALL of his old guns out of her house. Let's just say it was a labor of love.

I live in Iowa now where inlines are legal for ML seasons, and have 2 scoped inline rifles, so I don't really need this Grey Hawk for hunting. But, I've never used a sidelock before, and it looks fun. I especially like that it seems to be nearly all stainless steel in a very sturdy synthetic stock, so I should be able to clean it rigorously without ruining wood finish or bluing/casehardening. I have a few boxes of 385 grain Hornady Great Plains conicals, some 0.490" round balls, pillow tick patches, Bore Butter, CCI #11 and Musket Caps, Pyrodex RS, range rod, short starter, and the necessary powder measuring and cap handling tools.

My questions are (1), should I shoot this rifle or keep it as a "safe queen" in new condition, and (2) if I do shoot it, what are good recommended starting loads for the balls & conicals? I've been shooting 209-ignition inlines with saboted jacketed bullets over Blackhorn since I started muzzleloading, & have no experience with sidelocks, Pyrodex, Goex, etc.

 

[dhnut1973]

I think all guns deserve to be shot and I don't believe it is very collectible so I say shoot it. Just make sure you clean it properly before putting it back in the safe.
I'd start with 80gr of Pyro or Goex, .490 RB, and .015 patch. Good luck and have fun.

 

[NatureNick]

I think all guns deserve to be shot and I don't believe it is very collectible so I say shoot it. Just make sure you clean it properly before putting it back in the safe.
I'd start with 80gr of Pyro or Goex, .490 RB, and .015 patch. Good luck and have fun.

Thanks - I don't know how thick my patches are, but you bring up the good point that I should find out first!

 

[dhnut1973]

No worries, just shoot what you have on hand, I’m sure they will work just fine. Later on you can experiment with patch thickness to see what gives the best accuracy.

 

[bubba.50]

A gun of any kind is a useless waste of finances & space if ya don’t shoot them.

 

[Idaholewis]

I would Shoot it! Does this Rifle have a QLA Muzzle? Nothing beats Real Blackpowder for reliable instant ignition, But Accuracy wise I would put my money on the Substitute powders beating Goex, at least Goex Olde E (their top of the line powder) I just recently tried Goex Olde E and I wasn’t impressed at all. I can’t speak for Regular Goex as i have never used it, I shoot Swiss 2 and 3F exclusively in all of my Rifles. I have Shot Pyrodex P, and Triple Seven 3F, Both Substitute Powders Beat Goex Olde E hands down in Accuracy, I had HORRIBLE ignition problems with Pyrodex P and ultimately Gave up on it. I had no problems at all with Triple Seven, and Accuracy was really Good.

 

[NatureNick]

I would Shoot it! Does this Rifle have a QLA Muzzle? Nothing beats Real Blackpowder for reliable instant ignition, But Accuracy wise I would put my money on the Substitute powders beating Goex, at least Goex Olde E (their top of the line powder) I just recently tried Goex Olde E and I wasn’t impressed at all. I can’t speak for Regular Goex as i have never used it, I shoot Swiss 2 and 3F exclusively in all of my Rifles. I have Shot Pyrodex P, and Triple Seven 3F, Both Substitute Powders Beat Goex Olde E hands down in Accuracy, I had HORRIBLE ignition problems with Pyrodex P and ultimately Gave up on it. I had no problems at all with Triple Seven, and Accuracy was really Good.

Thanks, Lew - I'll pick up some Trip7 once I run out of Pyro RS, if in fact I do keep this rifle & shoot it.

 

[Idaholewis]

Thanks, Lew - I'll pick up some Trip7 once I run out of Pyro RS, if in fact I do keep this rifle & shoot it.

I know a lot of folks have good luck with Pyrodex, most of them i know shoot the finer P grade, But i sure had problems with the Can of it i had, It makes me wonder if i had a Bad Can of it? I actually poured mine out in a Row along the Rd and Lit it off to get rid of it. One thing I understand is REALLY important with the Substitute powders is Flash Hole Size, The number i hear a LOT is .033, The Treso/Ampco nipples that i use have a Tiny .028 Flash hole when brand new, Which is way to small to reliably ignite the Substitute Powders, I knew this Back when i was testing the Pyrodex P from Knowledgeable folks telling me so, and reading lots of info about it online. I was using an Old Treso/Ampco nipple that measured .033-.034 from Wear (Measured with Torch tip cleaners) I stil could not get this Pyrodex P to Set off good? I didn’t have this problem with the Triple Seven 3F Powder that i used. Pyrodex RS Costed my Dad a Bull Elk 1 year, He got on a Spike Bull (Spike Bull ONLY hunt) at 75 yards, pulled up and took the Shot, POP.................Boom, HANG FIRE! Just remember, The Substitute Powders require that little Extra Flash Hole Diameter To Reliably ignite. But also Remember there is a Fine line here! You don’t want to get over say .035-.036, The Back pressure forced back through the Nipple Hole Can/Will push your Hammer Back to Half Cock, and in more Severe cases it can Full cock, NOT GOOD! I read a post Way back where a Guy claimed his Lock had “Self Destructed” upon Firing the Gun? Come to find out he had Drilled the nipple Flash hole out to some Outlandish size, When he Shot the Gun the Back pressure coming back through the HUGE hole Blew the Hammer back Past Full Cock and Broke the Lock! Probably the Tumbler? Anyway, he put himself in a VERY Dangerous situation!
Real Blackpowder on the other hand will ignite IMMEDIATELY with the Tiny .028 Flash Hole, If Pin Point Accuracy is what you Strive for, you simply cannot beat Swiss Real Blackpowder!

 

[Rlsmith]

Shoot is it is great. I have one that is 20 yrs or so old shoot it all the time balls and conical both do a great job I use goes 2 f . Warm water dish soap, oil is all you need to clean

 

[Idaholewis]

Look in the Sticky Section of this Sidelock sub Forum, i have a LOT of info in there on How to clean, maintain, etc. I have helped Many folks on here with their Sidelocks. You should find any info needed to keep your Rifle Running like a “Fine oiled Machine”

 

[Renegadehunter]

I would shoot it. If I were looking for one, to me a new possibly unfired one really is no different than one that has been used but well taken care of. In fact, the well taken care of one would be broke in and would likely not be cutting patches due to sharp edges. Plus the seller would be able to share the loads that it likes.

 

[KTK]

Shoot it! I have always wanted a greyhawk.
I have a Lyman Deerstalker in Stainless.
It loves the 777 and the 385gr hornady great plains conicals.
Good luck. Post a pic.

 

[Smokeful]

That was my first muzzleloader. Loved it, shot well. I think I only used Pyrodex in it. As previously mentioned, take good care of it and it will be a fun shooter.

 

[SuperKirby]

Shoot it. I have one that I inherited from my father in law. He gave me a couple of his muzzleloaders his last couple years but wouldn’t part with his Gray Hawk. He said it was his favorite of all he ever shot. I never thought to ask him what his favorite load was, wish I would have. I haven’t shot it yet but it’s definitely on my list of things to do. It does seem to be a well built gun and shoulders pretty nice.

 

[NatureNick]

Thanks, All - shoot it, I shall. The stock is a bit long for me & the drop at comb is severe, so I'll have to strap/tape something to it to get my eyes up to the sights (I have short arms, all my rifles are 12-3/4" LOP & I think this thing is around 14"). I'll at least use up the conicals, balls, caps, patches & powder I have on hand since I don't use any of that stuff in my hunting frontstuffers since BH209 changed my life in inline-friendly Iowa. I'll roll through other threads to find advice on cleaning this thing, since I've never dealt with a fixed breech sidelock before & I'm worried about whether I can get all the crud out of the breech end's nooks & crannies. I foresee a lot of boiling water & my air compressor getting involved.

 

[NatureNick]

I would shoot it. If I were looking for one, to me a new possibly unfired one really is no different than one that has been used but well taken care of. In fact, the well taken care of one would be broke in and would likely not be cutting patches due to sharp edges. Plus the seller would be able to share the loads that it likes.

Well, now I feel obligated to at least break it in and build a data card for it, even if I don't like it in the end. I suppose I ought to ask: Where should I be looking for more information about such phenomena as cutting patches, and anything else the new sidelock patch & ball shooter should know before hitting the range?

 

[Renegadehunter]

I've read many times about new rifles having some sharp edges that cut patches, requiring a couple hundred shots to smooth them out a bit. The best way to find out if yours is cutting patches is one of two ways:
1. Load a patched ball and then use a ball puller to remove it again. Now inspect the patch for any cuts/tears. This is also a good way to check patch to ball fit, the ball should show some of the patch's weave imprinted into it.
2. Recover shot patches and see what they look like. You want them to be intact with no holes in them. Some fraying around the edges is normal where they take the most abuse sealing the gases behind the ball. Realize that patch thickness and lube also plays into how well they hold up.

Many choose to just lap the barrel before shooting rather than wait for a couple hundred shots for it to smooth out. I haven't ever done this, but I believe I read that Idaholewis laps his new barrels. He'd be a good resource for asking questions about this. I've read that a tight fitting cleaning patch with something like JB bore paste is ran back and forth through the bore for about a hundred strokes.