Sidelock Patented Breech/Fire Channel

[fourbore]

It is a screw in plug that has been ground flat. Too many people buggered up the threads like Lewis has said trying to remove them without gunsmithing screwdrivers, creating warranty issues.

T/C then transitioned to the breech plug w/o the visible screw. End of warranty issues.

That makes sense, but; I did not want to conradict a prior post when I was speculating.

 

[Idaholewis]

I have seen 2 of these Opposite side Plugs That had a Slotted Head, Both were TC Seneca’s. One i sent to a Guy in Utah (.36 Cal) and the other to a Guy in New York (.45 Cal) So they are out there. The .36 Was EASILY Removed. And Definitely a Factory Job, The Match/Blend was Perfect

 

[Matthew323]

I have seen 2 of these Opposite side Plugs That had a Slotted Head, Both were TC Seneca’s. One i sent to a Guy in Utah (.36 Cal) and the other to a Guy in New York (.45 Cal) So they are out there. The .36 Was EASILY Removed. And Definitely a Factory Job, The Match/Blend was Perfect

I learn something new about T/C weapons here at least once a week, if not more often. It makes no sense to me that T/C would switch to the left side of the breechplug to drill the access hole from the nipple to the powder chamber, and then install a slotted screw just like on the snail.

But, if Lewis says he has seen breech plugs like that, then I believe him.

The things that manufacturers do sometimes that are not in their best interests, just amazes me.

 

[Idaholewis]

I learn something new about T/C weapons here at least once a week, if not more often. It makes no sense to me that T/C would switch to the left side of the breechplug to drill the access hole from the nipple to the powder chamber, and then install a slotted screw just like on the snail.

But, if Lewis says he has seen breech plugs like that, then I believe him.

The things that manufacturers do sometimes that are not in their best interests, just amazes me.

@Bruce Mattes, Here are 3 Examples i just pulled up on Gunbroker, ALL 3 are TC Seneca’s like i spoke of above. I checked my Seneca in my Safe, it has the Flush Plug with NO Flat Head Slot. Another odd thing, I have ONLY Seen these Opposite side “Slotted“ Cleanout Screws on the TC Seneca’s, I personally have never seen one on a TC Hawken, or Renegade? That’s not to say they Don’t exist, But i have never seen one on them, They have ALL been Flushed Off, and Blued Over

Here is one that Somebody Boogered up trying to remove, Probably a combination of being Froze up, and a POOR Fitting Driver/Driver Bit (Quite common to see on ALL “Clean Out” Screws)

 

[Idaholewis]

And 1 more for Good measure This is a Seneca as Well

 

[Matthew323]

And 1 more for Good measure This is a Seneca as Well

Thanks for the images, and the info on the Seneca rifles.

 

[Dustin.garrison820]

And 1 more for Good measure This is a Seneca as Well

 

[bluefishjim]

Mike, Yes The Hawken and Renegade are identical :yeah:

Great pics, thanks, I have a TC and a traditions, any odea how these two rifles differ?

 

[Bad Karma]

@Bruce Mattes, Here are 3 Examples i just pulled up on Gunbroker, ALL 3 are TC Seneca’s like i spoke of above. I checked my Seneca in my Safe, it has the Flush Plug with NO Flat Head Slot. Another odd thing, I have ONLY Seen these Opposite side “Slotted“ Cleanout Screws on the TC Seneca’s, I personally have never seen one on a TC Hawken, or Renegade? That’s not to say they Don’t exist, But i have never seen one on them, They have ALL been Flushed Off, and Blued Over

Here is one that Somebody Boogered up trying to remove, Probably a combination of being Froze up, and a POOR Fitting Driver/Driver Bit (Quite common to see on ALL “Clean Out” Screws)

Looks like he really cranked down on the lock bolt too, on rifle #3...

 

[Idaholewis]

Great pics, thanks, I have a TC and a traditions, any odea how these two rifles differ?

I am not sure on the Traditions? I have never owned, nor handled one

 

[bluefishjim]

I just pulled the clean out screw, stuck a pipe cleaner in and sent down my bore camera, it appears to go straight into the breech and powder load. Guess I should have thought of this sooner.

 

[Buck Conner]

Lewis your probably to young to remember John Baird (editor/owner of Buckskin Report). John got into a pissing match with T/C about this design of a breech plug. Claiming it being weak and a poor design. He bad mouthed T/C in his magazine (must have got the right folks attention, because they took it personal), and went after him with both barrels blazing. The two sides went after each other for months until it went to court.

I did what you have done and tried to show John he didn't know what he was talking about with showing him a breech plug like this (a cut apart breech plug). He told me to mine my own business.

Long story short, Buckskin Report when under in the law suit along with other items owned by Baird and John disappeared. That was sad for all of us that read or wrote for the magazine (probably the best primitive magazine around in those days).

 

[Idaholewis]

Lewis your probably to young to remember John Baird (editor/owner of Buckskin Report). John got into a pissing match with T/C about this design of a breech plug. Claiming it being weak and a poor design. He bad mouthed T/C in his magazine (must have got the right folks attention, because they took it personal), and went after him with both barrels blazing. The two sides went after each other for months until it went to court.

I did what you have done and tried to show John he didn't know what he was talking about with showing him a breech plug like this (a cut apart breech plug). He told me to mine my own business.

Long story short, Buckskin Report when under in the law suit along with other items owned by Baird and John disappeared. That was sad for all of us that read or wrote for the magazine (probably the best primitive magazine around in those days).

Buck, I remember reading this somewhere? Thanks for adding this here!

I don’t see the TC Breech plugs as weak, They are plenty durable. The design of that “Funky“ Angled Flame Channel could have been better. When you see this Cutaway, it allows you to see what you are working with, They are easy to Care for, And Very Reliable when properly cared for. That said, I much prefer the Green Mountain Breech Plugs, GM bored a Deeper Powder Chamber to do away with the “Funky“ Flame Channel, With The GM Plug when the powder is Dumped it lands right beside the nipple, Just a quick tap on the Stock to Shift it over, and under the Nipple. GM Plugs are a much better setup

 

[Buck Conner]

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I agree with you, is a good design for a production muzzleloader. Several of us tried to explain this to Baird at LaVeta Rendezvous in the early '80s (hard making someone listen when they are bullheaded and a drunk on top of that).

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[Nit Wit]

You have done a great service to the muzzle loading world! Have you posted this on the Muzzle Loading Forum?
Thanks
Nit Wit

 

[exarcher]

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I agree with you, is a good design for a production muzzleloader. Several of us tried to explain this to Baird at LaVeta Rendezvous in the early '80s (hard making someone listen when they are bullheaded and a drunk on top of that).

View attachment 12170​

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Sounds like a certain political party with which i am familiar!

 

[hrt4me]

@Idaholewis, can those videos still be viewed somewhere? they no longer show up in your posts...

 

[Kowalski1]

Thank you for all the great information