Stuck on Starting Loads

[Bratch]

Long one, sorry guys.

I finally have my old .50 Optima ready to shoot (just in time for deer season to end) but find myself in analysis paralysis with starting load developments and the depths it could go.

I had planned to shoot BH209 and had found two bottles this summer that I put back but with the raising cost and availability I’m second guessing that idea and have started looking at T7 both loose and pellets. On the pellets I like that I can get 30/50/60gr varieties and build loads from 80gr-120gr at 10gr increments. After load development, I probably won’t be a high volume shooter so the BH209 wouldn’t bankrupt me. I need to get on of @ronlaughlin breechplugs if I use the BH209.

On bullets I had some Powerbelts, TC Shockwaves, and a bunch of maxi-balls I had found on clearance years ago. Reading less than stellar reviews of both Powerbelts and Shockwaves I bought some .430 240gr XTPs and some 240gr Scorpion PT Gold.

What I was planning was to get a good zero probably using a Maxi-ball, since I have the most, and 100gr of powder. From there I was going to try 3 shot groups with loads of 80-120grs in 10gr increments to find the most accurate combo.

I will be deer hunting with 150-200 yards being the longest with most under 100 yards. Will only be hunting in OK for now so no bullet restrictions.

Where I am needing help is if this is a valid plan and what am I missing?

Should I add T7 in or just focus on BH209? Mess with the pellets for ease or stick with loose powder even though I’m leaning towards basic 10gr load increments? I have Federal 209A primers.

Any other bullets I should try? I see good things on Barnes, Fury, and Thor bullets. I can see a never ending quest for perfections trying even bullet design and every grain. I’d prefer to focus on a couple proven performers and see if I can get a good acceptable group instead of trying every option to get the absolute smallest group. If I can’t get a good group with the first round of bullets I’d try a new batch of bullets.

Is everyone working at 50 or 100 yards for development?

I’m sure I’m missing something but this is long enough for now

 

[Bill V]

Too many options. If time is running out, I would pick a bullet and concentrate on that first. Use your 209 powder. Take 3 shots at 90 gr V, 3 at 100 gr v and 3 at 110 gr v. Pick the best group and go hunting. Any of these 3 loads will be more than adequate. Fine tune after the season is over. Maxi-ball would not be an option for me if a 200 yard shot is in play.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Same thoughts as Bill V, i would go with those Shockwaves if you really expect to shoot to 200, and lean toward the higher powder load(100-110 by volume).

 

[Bratch]

Too many options. If time is running out, I would pick a bullet and concentrate on that first. Use your 209 powder. Take 3 shots at 90 gr V, 3 at 100 gr v and 3 at 110 gr v. Pick the best group and go hunting. Any of these 3 loads will be more than adequate. Fine tune after the season is over. Maxi-ball would not be an option for me if a 200 yard shot is in play.

Season is over this year it ended today so I have a year to play with this and get lined out for next season.

 

[Widude]

I would use loose powder over pellets. If the gun is capable, B209, though prices are up, availability is down.

I would get crush rib sabots from Harvestor, matched to the bullet you plan, usually .451 in the 50 cal. For bullets, 250-300 grain, XTP, Barnes or something similar.

I would use 110-115 grains of loose powder, as full power hunting charges, 80-90 fine for setting up & casual shooting. Loose 777 is fine, just don’t leave the gun sit after shooting before you clean.

 

[deermanok]

Season is over this year it ended today so I have a year to play with this and get lined out for next season.

You could get your gun going and use it during rifle season.

 

[Bratch]

You could get your gun going and use it during rifle season.

Possible but I have a new to me 270 I’d like to try and get a notch on. I’ll probably only get out opening weekend unless I find something to bribe my wife with for an extra weekend. I’ve been spending most of my time trying to stick one with my crossbow this year.

 

[deermanok]

Possible but I have a new to me 270 I’d like to try and get a notch on. I’ll probably only get out opening weekend unless I find something to bribe my wife with for an extra weekend. I’ve been spending most of my time trying to stick one with my crossbow this year.

I got out yesterday morning for the last day of muzzleloader. Didn't see anything.
Been a tough season in my area so far.
I didn't hunt the first couple weeks, too warm plus I was kinda sick too.
Not much for acorns this year. I think the deer are feeding on any green grass or similar.
I've only seen 2 deer in the 6 or 7 times I've been out.
I'll be back out this week with the crossbow too.

 

[snapbang]

When ever I get another inline heres what I do.

Decide on and pick a projectile for the purpose of this MZ
Decide on powder and powder charge and weigh three loading tubes with powder only
Prepare the gun for shooting
Load the powder and the bullet. I make sure to start the sabot/bullet with a slit straight up at the front sight.
Push it down and seat it. Then 5 firm taps on the top of the ram rod to compress the powder uniformly as possible
Shoot
Spit patch
repeat.

Most of the time the first group is well within the needed accuracy.

 

[MrTom]

If it's an in-line that's compatible with BH209, I'd do what snapbang has said except I'd do three tubes each of three different powder charges for each bullet/sabot combo. I'd seat the bullets firmly but not be tapping. I'd shoot one bullet/sabot combo with all three of the same charges and all of the other charges, 9 shots. Then I'd clean out and start with the second bullet/sabot. and so on. BH doesn't need patching between shots, but in fairness the gun should be field cleaned, so each bullet /sabot starts fresh, and the breech plug with get reamed and the flame hole cleaned out with a wire.

If I were shooting T7 with this new in-line I'd follow snapbang's suggestions to the T. I hunt and pre-hunt shoot to make sure things are right with BH209. At the range I shoot T7 fffg and use snapbang procedure in all of my in-lines.

 

[JeffB1961]

Bryce just wanted say the reason i didn't reply to your message here about loads in a old optima is because i don't know enough about ML's to feel comfortable enough to give advise on them and i think both older and newer optimas can handle the same loads as long as both are in good condition .

take care , jeff

 

[JeffB1961]

snapbang , i'm not understanding this part "I make sure to start the sabot/bullet with a slit straight up at the front sight."
what slit are you refering to ?
and won't the rifling twist change the orientation of the "slit" once the projectile is seated on the powder ?
what am i not understanding ?
thanks . jeff

 

[MrTom]

He's referring to the slits in the bullet cup in sabot. He's just indexing his loading to eliminate another possible glitch, sort of like weighing vs volume on the powder.

 

[JeffB1961]

ohhhh ok , consistency . that word gets used a lot here . thanks .

 

[deermanok]

Sorta like loading an arrow onto a crossbow.

 

[snapbang]

ohhhh ok , consistency . that word gets used a lot here . thanks

For best result (accuracy) the same, the same, the same, the same. Im not sure you can get good results without consistency.

 

[Bratch]

Has anyone seen loads go from unacceptable to decent with powder changes?

I understand that finding the sweet spot can tighten up groups but can something go from 8” to 3” going from 80 to 110 gr (made up example).

Questioning is if it’s worth continuing to shoot a bullet if the first group is awful.

 

[MrTom]

You won't know if you don't shoot Bratch. If I got to 110 grains with a bullet/sabot combo and the group/accuracy was not coming around I'd be switching bullets. Keep in mind that some bullets/sabots need to be driven a bit harder to get acceptable accuracy or group tightness. I think most box in-lines are going to get their best at between 90 and 110 grains of powder by volume when XTPs, Deep Curls, are shot in sabots, but one has to take time to shoot various bullets and bullet weights to figure out what is primo for that person's specific needs. Unfortunately muzzleloading is not a one-size-fits-all affair.

 

[ElDiablo]

Has anyone seen loads go from unacceptable to decent with powder changes?

I understand that finding the sweet spot can tighten up groups but can something go from 8” to 3” going from 80 to 110 gr (made up example).

Questioning is if it’s worth continuing to shoot a bullet if the first group is awful.

In your made up example, I’d throw that bullet in the garbage if it shot 8” groups. Very often you can get a bullet to go from, say, 3” groups to 1.5” groups by changing the powder charge. This is assuming you’re shooting a bullet that is in the weight range (length) that your rifle’s twist rate will stabilize.

Assuming you are talking about your .50 Optima - a 1:28 twist you should be able to get most 240-300 gr bullets to shoot.

 

[rangerod]

Going forward I'd try the Thor's. I shoot them out of my Optima and my Redemption. Unbelievable accuracy. I will warn you though they are pricey. If you're not going to target shoot and just hunt the cost won't be so bad.