Super 91 with pitted barrel

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Re: RE: Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

nocomike said:
muzzlestuffer said:
Put the gun in a vise take the action screw out ant try to slide the action back and forth if it moves first step bed the action lug or full action bed. Second is the barrel free floated you should be able to slide a dollar bill between the barrel and stock if not float the barrel. Do you shoot with ramrod in the gun ? If so leave ramrod out and see if that helps if it does you have to adjust ramrod retainer clip to change affect on rifle. What weight bullets are you shooting ? One of my .504 rifles was throwing the 440 gr.bullets all over the place after I converted it to a super safari but it shot one inch groups at 100 yards prior I ordered a 600 gr mold and casted some up with a .504 sizer die and it started shooting one inch groups at 100 yards again I spoke to doc about this and he told me it's all harmonics and all of these things I described affect harmonics I'm not saying your situation is but I own a lot of white rifles and rebuilt all of them and they really shoot.
I appreciate your suggestions. I bedded the action and yes, the barrel is floating/no stock contact. The only bullets I have tried thus far are 460g No Excuses sized at .503 but I have since stocked up on Bull Shop 460g sized to .504, which I will be shooting next weekend. I have not tried tweaking the ram-rod but will keep that in mind. Thanks
Here are the 600 grain I use in my white super safari sized at .504 shoot one inch groups at 100 with 90 grs pp and felt wad
f64b5cd4a8ab7a2204e1889fb9219cba.jpg
c22487f736eae583e0b7603679c303aa.jpg


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thanks for the suggestion of using a heavier bullet; I may try that route if the bottle of Triple 7 FFF doesn't help tighten my groups
 
Re: RE: Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

nocomike said:
thanks for the suggestion of using a heavier bullet; I may try that route if the bottle of Triple 7 FFF doesn't help tighten my groups
Another thing to keep in mind is 777 is cleaner than pp and I think when the bore is on the dirtier side it might help tighten the bullet if bullet to bore is a little loose I think that's one of the reasons the whites can shoot 20 or more rounds without cleaning and hold tight groups. Of course harmonics is a huge part of the equation. Let us know how it goes.

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I wanted to post an update with a positive follow-up and here it is...
Load is FFFG Triple 7 at 65g by volume with veggie fiber wad and 460g Bull Shop sized to .504 and RWS no.11 caps.
Swabbed between shots with blue windex.
I had the same Konus scope mounted, and put 4 bullets in one ragged hole at 75 yards.
I did remove the under rib for this shoot and realize I am compounding the variables which may be responsible for the improvement in accuracy.
The switch to FFFG vs FFG powder and the re-crowned barrel and also, the removal of the under rib. Also, down to 65g load.
Regardless of which "change" accounts for the improvement in accuracy, I am pleased. I really like the way the S91 feels in hand and looks and know there is a future with this particular rifle.
If I had to guess, I feel the finer grained FFFG is the main reason the accuracy came around, but it is just that, a guess. Next, I will put the under rib back on (which I have straightened, as it was noticeably curved) and if the accuracy holds, I will see if I can bump the load up to 70-75 grains.
I appreciate the suggestions that were offered. I have a Lyman peep for this rifle and just need to get a front ramp and bead and I hope to hunt deer with this S91 come October. (even if I have to carry a ram rod in my pack, should the under rib be the culprit robbing my accuracy).
Thanks for all the suggestions and good shooting.
 
Try shooting with the ramrod in and bring a range rod to swab and load your bullets. I've found with my .451 Whites they prefer either 777-3F or Swiss-3F.
 
Re: RE: Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

nocomike said:
I wanted to post an update with a positive follow-up and here it is...
Load is FFFG Triple 7 at 65g by volume with veggie fiber wad and 460g Bull Shop sized to .504 and RWS no.11 caps.
Swabbed between shots with blue windex.
I had the same Konus scope mounted, and put 4 bullets in one ragged hole at 75 yards.
I did remove the under rib for this shoot and realize I am compounding the variables which may be responsible for the improvement in accuracy.
The switch to FFFG vs FFG powder and the re-crowned barrel and also, the removal of the under rib. Also, down to 65g load.
Regardless of which "change" accounts for the improvement in accuracy, I am pleased. I really like the way the S91 feels in hand and looks and know there is a future with this particular rifle.
If I had to guess, I feel the finer grained FFFG is the main reason the accuracy came around, but it is just that, a guess. Next, I will put the under rib back on (which I have straightened, as it was noticeably curved) and if the accuracy holds, I will see if I can bump the load up to 70-75 grains.
I appreciate the suggestions that were offered. I have a Lyman peep for this rifle and just need to get a front ramp and bead and I hope to hunt deer with this S91 come October. (even if I have to carry a ram rod in my pack, should the under rib be the culprit robbing my accuracy).
Thanks for all the suggestions and good shooting.
Good to hear your improving your groups. Put the rib back on and if your groups get bad then that's a issue. Also if I'm not mistaken pyrodex p which is finer powder is usually the more accurate powder but I have whites that shoot both pp and 777 equally good. Action to stock fit and bedding is another thing that could be a issue ?

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

muzzlestuffer said:
nocomike said:
I wanted to post an update with a positive follow-up and here it is...
Load is FFFG Triple 7 at 65g by volume with veggie fiber wad and 460g Bull Shop sized to .504 and RWS no.11 caps.
Swabbed between shots with blue windex.
I had the same Konus scope mounted, and put 4 bullets in one ragged hole at 75 yards.
I did remove the under rib for this shoot and realize I am compounding the variables which may be responsible for the improvement in accuracy.
The switch to FFFG vs FFG powder and the re-crowned barrel and also, the removal of the under rib. Also, down to 65g load.
Regardless of which "change" accounts for the improvement in accuracy, I am pleased. I really like the way the S91 feels in hand and looks and know there is a future with this particular rifle.
If I had to guess, I feel the finer grained FFFG is the main reason the accuracy came around, but it is just that, a guess. Next, I will put the under rib back on (which I have straightened, as it was noticeably curved) and if the accuracy holds, I will see if I can bump the load up to 70-75 grains.
I appreciate the suggestions that were offered. I have a Lyman peep for this rifle and just need to get a front ramp and bead and I hope to hunt deer with this S91 come October. (even if I have to carry a ram rod in my pack, should the under rib be the culprit robbing my accuracy).
Thanks for all the suggestions and good shooting.
Good to hear your improving your groups. Put the rib back on and if your groups get bad then that's a issue. Also if I'm not mistaken pyrodex p which is finer powder is usually the more accurate powder but I have whites that shoot both pp and 777 fff equally good. Action to stock fit and bedding is another thing that could be a issue ?

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I am having the same problems with all my Whites, good info in this thread. Utah just made scopes that provide magnification legal a couple of years ago. When I took off the 1x stuff and put magnifiers on, the accuracy went to heck. I was thinking my 1.5” groups at 100 yards were going to go to ragged holes, quite the opposite. I did shoot the last of my fffT7 before I made all these changes and have been using Pyro P and Pyro Select RS, just bought some more T7 and gonna make another trip to the range. I’ve been shooting the No Excuses 460 grain in both my Super 91’s the 451 and 504 one of my 504 Supers I have never gotten to group decently. Gonna double check for some leading in the barrel and see if that might be an issue. I usually don’t use a brush on the barrels, windex and doubled up patches scrub it to pretty shiny. I may have some leading going on in the rifling. Might have to invest in a bore scope. I built a mold for the old buck busters when Doc quit making rifles, they shot great from my Whitetail but not the Super 91??????? They measure out at 503 and a gnat.
 
Re: RE: Re: Super 91 with pitted barrel

sdporter said:
I am having the same problems with all my Whites, good info in this thread. Utah just made scopes that provide magnification legal a couple of years ago. When I took off the 1x stuff and put magnifiers on, the accuracy went to heck. I was thinking my 1.5” groups at 100 yards were going to go to ragged holes, quite the opposite. I did shoot the last of my fffT7 before I made all these changes and have been using Pyro P and Pyro Select RS, just bought some more T7 and gonna make another trip to the range. I’ve been shooting the No Excuses 460 grain in both my Super 91’s the 451 and 504 one of my 504 Supers I have never gotten to group decently. Gonna double check for some leading in the barrel and see if that might be an issue. I usually don’t use a brush on the barrels, windex and doubled up patches scrub it to pretty shiny. I may have some leading going on in the rifling. Might have to invest in a bore scope. I built a mold for the old buck busters when Doc quit making rifles, they shot great from my Whitetail but not the Super 91??????? They measure out at 503 and a gnat.
Shoot the 600 grain bullets I bet it will group better !

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I have rejuivinated an old pitted out tc or two in my life. both had been shot and set aside for over a year. I started out with a wire brush on a cleaning rod. Then I moved to comet cleanser on patches. After the barrel was mostly shiny, we placed it in pb lubricant. They shot well at 75yards ... To kill deer.
 
JBBCC.JPEG
I was given a .177 pelt gun that was probably never cleaned and it had a rusted barrel. JB bore cleaner made that bore like mirror, just follow the directions.
 

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