T/c hawken rifle's

[Steveo1854]

Hello all, new to the forum. I recently inquired both a t/c hawken .50 and .54 rifles both caplocks and both seam to be from late 80s / early 90s so I'm assuming 1:48. Tomorrow I will be shooting the .54 Any advise in load combo is appreciated. I typically use goex powder but I do have a jug of 777 (never used be4) I'm using 530 RB .015 lubed patch and also have 425gr hornady GPB to play with. I usually do 3 shots between swap. Thx

 

[longbowelk]

I am casting my own 445 gr lead conicals. I use a 1/8 " wad under the conical. They cast at .504. I run them through a .502 sizer. I am shooting right at 80 vol of Black MZ which I heard is discontinued. But 80 Goex should be fine. You can go on up to 90 if you dont mind your shoulder tore off. I'm not sure on the Triple 7. If ignition no problem I would think 70 to 80 vol would work. Ok, we talking the 50 cal. Using open peep sight at 100 yards no problem putting 3 shots in 4 inch kill zone.

 

[Steveo1854]

I had the .54 on range today. I will say I'm not satisfied with what had tried. I started with 70gr 2f goex and PRB at 60yrds I couldn't group much. I shot 3 rounds then cleaned with hops #9 BP solvent and patch lube. I worked my way up to 90gr. Tried hornady GPB with 90gr 2f goex and all over the place. I then switched to 777. I will say its very tuff to load a 2nd and 3rd round with GPB when using 777 so i switched back to PRB. After tinkering with charge and PRB I seamed to have somewhat of a group with 90gr 777 .530 RB pre lubed .015 patch. It was easier to load a 2nd and 3rd shot. It was about 30* outside and my patches where stiff so I tried a small amount of patch lube with patch. Im not confident on taking it out hunting. I'm looking into trying maxi balls next.

 

[MSalyards]

Are you swabbing between shots? Did you fire any caps to season your barrel before your first shot?

 

[Steveo1854]

No I'm not swabbing between shots. I typically like to take 3 shots be4 that. It seams like this gun does like a clean barrel though. I also noticed my patches are burnt to a crisp. Do you think I should also try a wad on top of powder?

 

[HC]

Swab between shots, use thicker patches.

 

[Steveo1854]

Ok I will give this a try next weekend. Thx for the help.

 

[Idaholewis]

I can’t help on Patched Roundball, I simply know little, to nothing about it. I just recently bought a 1:66 Roundball Twist .45 Cal to Start Learning it.

As for the Bullets, They should do good in your Gun? Are you Shooting from a Bench, Sticks, Free hand? I swear by the use of an 1/8” Wool Felt Over Powder Wad with Bullets, But That particular Hornady bullet has a Hollow/Cupped Base, Therefore a Wool Wad could cause more problems than do good. Is the lube on those bullets kinda Stiff? I have shot these before quite sometime ago and it seemed like the Lube was Thick/Stiff? One thing you might try, is to get the Factory Lube off 5-6 of them (Lay them on a Paper Towel and get them Hot with a Hair Dryer) Then give them a Fresh Coat of Crisco Just before Loading. Try another Group that way. I have seen bullet Lube effect Accuracy in a Big Way!

 

[toytruck]

Don't clean/swab with Hoppes #9, that will cause more issues especially with triple seven, like the crud ring and difficult loading. Just a simple spit patch or windex patch will work very good. Last time I shot my .54 Renegade it did very well with .530 roundball and 60gr T7 2Fg at 50yds.

 

[Steveo1854]

I'm shooting on a bench with tripod so I'm very steady. I never used a felt with anything and these GPB are fresh sticky. I'm gonna try ticking patch .018 and swab after each shot. I won't use hops to clean. I'll try different approach, spit. I also have a lyman's GPH flinter 1:28 that also took me a while to find perfect combo, 85g fff goex and 250g hornady sst so it's good to get input from guys that have these t/c hawkens

 

[GM54-120]

Hoppes #9 Black Powder formula is mostly water but it does contain some kerosene too. They did offer the Elite BP version at one time. It has no kerosene in it. Should be the same stuff as M-Pro 7 or super similar. Pantheon makes both.

 

[Renegadehunter]

My .54 Renegade at same twist shoots Hornady GPB's very good at a 100 grain charge of 2f Goex, swabbing between every shot.
For RB, I use a .530 RB with an .018" pillow ticking patch with 75 grains of 2f Goex. I wouldn't be afraid to go to 80 grains. I also use Hoppes BP lube on occasion, with the patches only damp and none can be squeezed out of them. I can only get away with 2 shots before needing to swab or groups really open up.
I have recently been playing around with 3f powder and different lubes. Best so far is 80 grains of 3f Goex with a 6:1 ratio of Castor oil & Denatured alcohol as a lube (dried so alcohol evaporates out). This is with .015" pillow ticking patch (CVA sells these). 1-1/2" group at 50 yards with that setup swabbing every shot.

 

[Steveo1854]

Yes I will try swabbing after each shot with this gun. I've had other guns that **** well dirty and didn't matter much. I will focus on PRB 1st then for hunting, try the GPB. I will say, 90g of powder and 430gr GPB out of .54 kicks like mule.

 

[Renegadehunter]

Yes, they are all a person wants for recoil that's for sure. I recently put on different sights so I need to verify where my GPB's are going to hit, new sights are sighted in for PRB right now. Not looking forward to it.

 

[coupe]

steveo, my old 50 cal t/c used to recoil pretty good with 90 gr, but my 54 hawken has a 1" barrel at 33" and it tames the recoil of a 530 ball and 90gr charge very well. but it's much harder to keep on target off hand, so I bench and use any steady rest when hunting. Also the lube renegadehunter is using is very much like the mix of moose milk, the mix has 91% alcohol, which hazel murphys soap and water I have been using with excellent results. I do believe the hazel and water are not really needed when dry the patches load better than the pure mink oil I was lubeing with. I dunk and dry twice then store till needed I still use the felt over powder wad even though the patches survive the 90gr load alone, still like the extra protection. Renegades mix is 6:1 castor oil to alcohol or alcohol to castor oil I think the 1 part is the oil? Any way I also swab between shots with just water and alcohol, run a damp patch flip run again, dry patch flip run again, then snap a cap to dry the fire chnl. 1 1/2" hi at 75 yds. on at 100.
coupe

 

[Steveo1854]

Thx coupe, that's some good info.

 

[Renegadehunter]

Yes, the Castor Oil (CO) is 1 part and the Denatured Alcohol (DA) is 6 parts. It is a very light application of lube to the patch. The CO won't mix with water but does with DA. Shake the heck out of it for a bit. Then I put one patch at a time into the mixture for about 10 seconds, remove, squeeze the patch between thumb and forefinger, and set on some wax paper. I let them sit for a couple hours and then store in a snack size ziplock (can be labeled with a sharpie if needed). I will put some in an old cap tin when using them hunting.
This patch lube method basically is a Dutch Schultz way of lightly lubing a patch. He found that this gave him the best accuracy, and believes it is because the patch isn't too slick and will resist moving too soon before some pressure builds behind it during ignition. Whatever the reason, in all of my lube experimenting it is currently the best groups I've been able to attain. Others use Ballistol and water instead of the CO/DA mix, they also leave the patches out so the water will evaporate and just leave a light Ballistol lube on the patch. Dutch reports that most end up using a mixture somewhere between 5:1 and 8:1 I believe.

 

[coupe]

I think you are right about the light lube for I have the best groups with the castor oil than any other, even the old whale oil didn't do as well. Maybe because of over wetting the patch we left to much oil on the patch. I noticed when I lubed with crisco or other lubes rubbed on the heavier the lube the wider the group. I will say that I believe the castor lubed patch does load easier than all other lubes I have used since I started shooting smokepoles. Side by side trials with the same patch and different lubes, after the same swabbing technique I have done for 40 years, the castor patches did slide much easier using the same load method. It's that much slicker than even pure mink oil. Olive oil, cannola oil, mink oil, coconut oil, all work but the best pattern came for me with castor oil mix.
coupe

 

[Idaholewis]

I think you are right about the light lube for I have the best groups with the castor oil than any other, even the old whale oil didn't do as well. Maybe because of over wetting the patch we left to much oil on the patch. I noticed when I lubed with crisco or other lubes rubbed on the heavier the lube the wider the group. I will say that I believe the castor lubed patch does load easier than all other lubes I have used since I started shooting smokepoles. Side by side trials with the same patch and different lubes, after the same swabbing technique I have done for 40 years, the castor patches did slide much easier using the same load method. It's that much slicker than even pure mink oil. Olive oil, cannola oil, mink oil, coconut oil, all work but the best pattern came for me with castor oil mix.
coupe

I know lube can play a big role in accuracy with Bullets, I have found the thinnest Lube i can get to “Hold” in the Grooves the better

 

[anaconda44]

Big tip but long read

You need to seat the ball and bullet the same every time. Heres what i do first shot out of clean de oiled barrel. Powder patch then ball or bullet i am using. As i seat the ball i use a ball starter with a extra hole drilled in it for the ramrod end to fit into. Start the ball then use the ramrod with the ball starter with the extra hole to help push the load in the barrel . i put the butt of the gun on my foot or piece of wood and push down hard till i feel the powder compress. You need to do this every time. It very important constant seating pressure.

Iater the shot i have a range rod with a wire brush. Brush it a few times turn the muzzle down tap to get any fouling out. Follow with a wet/damo patch with rubbing alchoal.maybe twice. . i also use worn out wire brush with a dry patch after the alcahol. The load next round. I know its a lot but if you want a group that is tight and cutting holes it is what i found works for me.
Also for target with tc hawkins 50cal 490 round ball 70gr 2f and the 54cal 530 roundball 90gr 2f. I only use black powder. Also pillow ticking prelube patches