TC Hawken 1-48 twist and 240grn PA conicals

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DESPERATE LEE

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Ok guys this is my first post here on MM forum. I have a TC Hawken kit that i built back in the late 70's or early 80's. It has a 1 in 48 twist barrel. I have always shot prb in it and got decent accuracy in it. I have on hand about 150 Hornady 240 grn PA conicals. Anyone have any experience with these and what should i expect as a load for them? Decent deer bullets up to 100yards? Thanks in advance.
DL
 
I have only poured and shot the TC Maxi balls in mine and as a conical they shoot pretty good for me. But as I understand it the 1-48 twist is just a middle of the road barrel to shoot PRB and Maxi's. I believe others will chime in and better explain what it takes to shoot other conicals and why the 1-48 is so so.
 
Ok guys this is my first post here on MM forum. I have a TC Hawken kit that i built back in the late 70's or early 80's. It has a 1 in 48 twist barrel. I have always shot prb in it and got decent accuracy in it. I have on hand about 150 Hornady 240 grn PA conicals. Anyone have any experience with these and what should i expect as a load for them? Decent deer bullets up to 100yards? Thanks in advance.
DL

First off, Welcome to the Forum :lewis:

You have an AWESOME Old Rifle! The TC Hawken’s and Renegades are my ABSOLUTE Favorite Muzzleloaders, I have several, Most of mine have aftermarket Barrels, Mostly Fast Twist For Shooting Bullets, Though i also have a Few Slow Twist Roundball barrels as well, Along with Stock 1:48 Twist Barrels.

The 240 Grn PA Conicals you speak of is one i have yet to try? I started a thread on them here LONG Ago, I was gonna get a Box of them to experiment with but stil haven’t done so. From the pics i see of them, They appear to be a Cupped base design? If i had them, i would try a Group of them with 50-60 Grains, and a Group with 80 Grains, See which shows best accuracy potential? Then fine tune from there. Also Try a 1/2 a Cotton Ball as an Over Powder Wad Between the Powder, and Bullet Base, I SWEAR by the use of an Over Powder Wad to Seal the Gasses BEHIND the Bullet, But a regular Flat Shaped Over Powder Wad is NOT a good idea with a Cupped Base Bullet, the Flat wad will “Push up” inside the Cup, Defeating it’s purpose Of Sealing Gasses From escaping around the Bullet. So in these Cupped base Bullet Cases, try a Cotton Ball, or a 1/2 of one. The Cotton Ball is Forgiving and Will Fill the Cupped base, Yet also Create a Seal Behind the Bullet, and as the Bullet Exits the Bore it will Separate immediately from the Cotton Ball since it so Light weight. Make sure and use 100% Cotton, NO SYNTHETIC Types!

Also, use a bit of HIGH flash point Oil such as Olive, Peanut, Avocado, on the Cotton Ball as a Fire retardant, The last time i shot Cotton Balls DRY with Conicals they were Smoking pretty Good when they Hit the Ground :) Get a Small amount of Oil on the Cotton Balls, Place them Between an Absorbent paper type Towel and Step on them to Soak up excess and Get oil all through the Cotton Ball
 
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If they will load easily, they're a fine little bullet. A departed friend used them quite a bit and had only good things to say. He even got a twofor once. Unintentionally.
They're listed a s a .512 diameter to help with deep grooved ball barrels. My TC's all have .500 bores except my Renegade. She's a .497.
My Bud used to shoot them with 80 grains of 2f Goex.
And again, welcome to our happy society.
 
Idaholewis
Thanks for the reply. I love that old gun. Built her from a kit my wife gave me for Christmas one year. Took almost a year to put it the way i wanted it, then another 10 years before i ever fired it. A friend of mine showed me how to load and fire and i've loved it ever since.
Been reading a lot of IdahoRon's posts and i find all this very interesting with the conicals and the paper patching. I will also be changing my rear and front sights. Maybe a peep in the rear and a globe up front. Something to help these 68 year old eyes. The prb always shot good with 90 grns powder with a .490 ball and .015 patch, for me and open sights. Taken many a doe in under 50 yards. Want to reach out beyond my feeder, up 100 + yards, and take a buck or two.
Would love to read some of your old posts if i knew how to get to them. Read a lot of Dutch Drx5 and IdahoRon's old posts. Really interesting. Got a Traditions 1-32 barrel on an inline i may start working again with and maybe try paper parching it. Any and all help is really appreciated and archived for my future reference.
DL
 
Confederate man
At one time i used Pyrodex RS in all rifles. I now got 777 in 3F, Goex in 3F, Swiss in 3F, Pyrodex P, and bottle of unopened Black MZ to try out. Been shooting mostly pistol for a while. Cant let rifles sit ignored for too long.
DL
 
Lew, doesn't the oil bugger up your powder on the cotton ball? Or I guess you squeeze it semi dry? It seems that would make a nice little fire starter:think:
 
Lew, doesn't the oil bugger up your powder on the cotton ball? Or I guess you squeeze it semi dry? It seems that would make a nice little fire starter:think:

Thats Where Placing them Between Paper Towels and STANDING on them Comes in, Absorb up any Excess oil, you definitely wouldn’t want to put them on the Powder Wet with Cooking oil. For Hunting i would Use a Bone DRY Cotton Ball on the Powder, and deal with the Fire later :D It’s easy to waste oil doing this, I actually use a Syringe (Without the needle) it doesn’t take much Cooking oil, Actually very little!

What got me to using the Cooking Oil was Dry 1/8 wool Felt Bulk Wad Material i get from Durofelt, I notice the few times i have used BONE DRY Unlubed 1/8” Wool felt Wads they get RAGGED up Pretty Badly, But the Store bought Oxyoke Brand Lubed Wool felt Wads NEVER DO? They look Re-Usable Good. This got me to thinking, there’s a Reason Oxyoke sells “Lubed” Wool Felt? So i gave lubing the Dry ones i had punched out a Try, i used Avocado Cooking Oil, Just a few Drops in the Center of Each Wad, Then Stood on them Between Paper Towels. NO MORE Ragged Wads :lewis: They literally look Re-Usable Just like the Store Bought Oxyoke Brand Lubed Wool Felt Wads.
 
Thats Where Placing them Between Paper Towels and STANDING on them Comes in, Absorb up any Excess oil, you definitely wouldn’t want to put them on the Powder Wet with Cooking oil. For Hunting i would Use a Bone DRY Cotton Ball on the Powder, and deal with the Fire later :D It’s easy to waste oil doing this, I actually use a Syringe (Without the needle) it doesn’t take much Cooking oil, Actually very little!

What got me to using the Cooking Oil was Dry 1/8 wool Felt Bulk Wad Material i get from Durofelt, I notice the few times i have used BONE DRY Unlubed 1/8” Wool felt Wads they get RAGGED up Pretty Badly, But the Store bought Oxyoke Brand Lubed Wool felt Wads NEVER DO? They look Re-Usable Good. This got me to thinking, there’s a Reason Oxyoke sells “Lubed” Wool Felt? So i gave lubing the Dry ones i had punched out a Try, i used Avocado Cooking Oil, Just a few Drops in the Center of Each Wad, Then Stood on them Between Paper Towels. NO MORE Ragged Wads :lewis: They literally look Re-Usable Just like the Store Bought Oxyoke Brand Lubed Wool Felt Wads.
I just tried in my super 91 410 White a swedged cup base .408 pp bullet 400gr knurled up to about 411/412 (humter280man's idea) with that diy BLL lube and the results were simply awesome !!! Ended up with 90gr T73f which is Alot hotter than my 400gr powerpunch conical liked @80gr pyro p . This cotton ball idea is a Really GOOD idea for a hollow based bullet !!! Thats quite a brainstorm right there !!! Is there a reason for just half a cotton ball ??? Im gonna try this , thanks for sharing it !!!!!! Also , this bullet doesnt have a metplat . Do you think thats gonna be a problem hunting with it as it looks alot like your sleeker 45 bullets ive seen pics of ???
 
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I replied to your post elsewhere but will add to it here. I use 80 grains FFFg in my 1:48". It is sighted in dead-on at 100-yards. I have a little rubber mallet that I use to start them. The skirt does in the muzzle so that just the nose dome is sticking out. I don't want to mash that with the short starter so I just tap it with the mallet, then the ramrod works fine.
 
Sparkitoff
Thanks for your reply. I am leaning toward fff in Goex or Swiss. Been using Swiss in my ASP Remington 44 revolvers. Goex works good there also, so may use the Swiss in the Hawken. Got 100 paper carts loaded with Goex for the cap&ball revolvers.
DL
 
I just tried in my super 91 410 White a swedged cup base .408 pp bullet 400gr knurled up to about 411/412 (humter280man's idea) with that diy BLL lube and the results were simply awesome !!! Ended up with 90gr T73f which is Alot hotter than my 400gr powerpunch conical liked @80gr pyro p . This cotton ball idea is a Really GOOD idea for a hollow based bullet !!! Thats quite a brainstorm right there !!! Is there a reason for just half a cotton ball ??? Im gonna try this , thanks for sharing it !!!!!! Also , this bullet doesnt have a metplat . Do you think thats gonna be a problem hunting with it as it looks alot like your sleeker 45 bullets ive seen pics of ???

I like/prefer a Wide Meplat Bullet for Hunting, But I truly believe a Soft Lead Bullet with a “Money” Elliptical, Etc. Shape Nose Would be JUST as Deadly on Game? It has a lot to do with the Slower Velocities we get in ML, A slow moving Bullet is DEVASTATING on Game!! Look at the Old .30-30 Win as Example, They were NO Speed Demon by ANY means, But Talk about a Cartridge that Brought home the Bacon!! They were Slow, But DEADLY. They took the Forward Motion OUT of Deer
 
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I like/prefer a Wide Meplat Bullet for Hunting, But I truly believe a Soft Lead Bullet with a “Money” Elliptical, Etc. Shape Nose Would be JUST as Deadly on Game?
This is a good question. I have shot 1/2 dozen deer with the Lyman 542622 bullet. This is a traditional Minie style bullet and has virtually nothing in the way of a meplat. I can't tell what the bullet performance is in game because I've never recovered one. Only one of the deer has gone over 30 yards after it was hit.
 
these are accurate in my t/c 66 twist 31" pa hunter rifles and 21" carbine. my hunting load is 90gr goex ffg. 80gr goex ffg provides slightly tighter groups @50yds in my rifles. i've taken a number of deer using pa conicals during the late flintlock season, most have dropped in their tracks.
 
BTT
So i want to ask Idaholewis a question. If this were your 1-48 twist 28" barreled TC Hawken, and it has only fired maybe 100 prb thru it, what conical would you try and why? Would you just use lubed lead or try a paper patch bullet? Just my mind wandering.
DL
 
BTT
So i want to ask Idaholewis a question. If this were your 1-48 twist 28" barreled TC Hawken, and it has only fired maybe 100 prb thru it, what conical would you try and why? Would you just use lubed lead or try a paper patch bullet? Just my mind wandering.
DL

I don’t shoot a lot of 1:48 Twist, But when i do, My ALL TIME FAVORITE bullet for the 1:48 Twist is the Lyman Plains at .85 Long, I have shot that Bullet MATCH GRADE Good in 1:48, And my Fast 1:28 Twist Rifles, Both .50 and .54 Caliber (395 Grains 50 Cal, and 460 Grains 54 Cal) I have Videos of these Bullets in Action, They FLAT OUT SHOOT!! I have sent these Bullets to SEVERAL Guys, in several States, Every single person that has tried them has Had great luck with them :lewis: The Lyman bullet is not Available to buy, it is a Mold only.

Though not ideal, I have also sized the Lyman Plains Bullet in .50 and .54 Cal, to .492 50 Cal, and .532 54 Cal, Then 2 Wraps of 9# Onion Skin Paper, and Shot them Paper Patched, They Shot STELLAR this way as well, If you Paper Patch them, the KEY is Sizing the Bullet to PROPER PP Diameter, Then Wrapping them “UP TO BORE” NO SIZING Required, other than a Slight ironing if needed for Fit.

The Lyman Plains is as Good as ANY CUSTOM Bullet Mold i have had made. That Say’s quite a bit coming from a Guy that has a Tote COMPLETELY FULL of Bullet Molds ;)

The other Bullet that i have Shot REALLY Good, and is Readily available to Purchase, is the Hornady Great Plains Bullet. They Quit making it in .54 Cal, But stil make the .50 Cal Version. It is a Hollow Point Design, Some are against the Hollow Point, some Swear by it, Personal preference thing. For Elk size Game i would Prefer a Wide, Solid Meplat. Deer, The Hollow Point is VERY WELL Proven!
 
Thank you Lewis. Well thought out answers and good info for me or any other 1-48 shooter. One more question if you dont mind? I have a 1-32 twist Traditions inline with a 209 primer breech plug ( you know the magnum craze ). I am going to put the #11 plug back in and do you feel these bullets will work as good as a 1-48 twist conventional side lock? How about the PA conical in this twist? Have you tried in this twist before?
DL
 
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I found in my stash today, as i was cleaning my room, some Hornady Great Plains bullets, some 385 grain HB HP and some 410 grain HB FP. I have 13 of the 385 and 17 of the 410 grain bullets. I would guess these were bought when i finished the Hawken kit back in the late 70's or early 80's. They are stuck in the foam cartridge carrier from Hornady box. Some are missing so apparently i tried then. At the suggestion of every expert i read, back then, or every salesman i talked to Pyrodex RS was the propellant of choice. Now that i know better, that is some dirty stuff, i use either Goex or Swiss in all my guns, rifles and revolvers and single shot pistols. Is the 410 grain 50 cal Hornady Grat Plains still avaliable? Better in a 1-48 or a 1-32 twist barrel?
DL
 
I'm betting that the 385 and the 410 grn will shoot great in your 1-32 twist. If you want to wade slowly into the PP shooting, the 1-32 should be easy enough to get up and running. There are several ways to skin a cat but I like to start under sized and wrap up to bore diameter. 80 grn by weight of swiss ffg a wool wad and properly sized and wrapped bullet = lights out shooting. Key is getting the just right bore fit..takes a little experimentation on bullet size. If you can measure your inline bore by greasing up a 54 cal lead ball and driving it gently into the bore, then measure the bore diameter after lightly driving it back out. You will have a better idea of what bullet diameter to start out with. Lots of help on here to get it figured out. As far as the PA conical...load it and shoot it. You will know in a big fat hurry if your gun likes them or not. Happy Holidays!
 
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