TC Hawken/Renegade Breech Plug With “Cleanout Screw” (How it was made)

[fishdfly]

This is one of those things that should be a sticky.

 

[Troll]

Another view of the ACTUAL Plugs

This is a Green Mountain Breech Plug. Just like my Drawn photo above, They have a Deep Powder Chamber/Patented Breech, you can see the Cross Hole that goes over to the Nipple in the Very back, Left

And here is a TC, The Green Mountain Breech Plug above is a MUCH MUCH Better Design. But these Old TC’s Work EXTREMELY well when you understand them, How they are made. You can REALLY see where the Little Handheld Steam Cleaner is a DREAM with these Old TC Hawken/Renegade Breech Plugs

Mr. Lewis,

I'm new to BP and new to this forum.... I have acquired a T/C Hawken .50 (percussion) and am considering the finer points of loading and cleaning it, and the chambered breech raises some questions.

From the pictures and playing with ramrod accessories, it looks like the chamber is about 1/4" deep and 1/4" wide, spherical. It also looks like the flame (flash?) channel is about 1/8" diameter, and about 3/4" from the bottom of the chamber to the middle of the nipple, with a dogleg. I read somewhere (going blind with these forums) that the chamber and the flame channel hold about 16g FFg.

Is it better to slap the barrel or (gently) bounce the butt to settle powder into the channel/chamber?

What is the "best" / recommended method for not pushing fouling back down into the chamber, since the cleaning jag won't get down into the bottom of the chamber or clean the flame channel between shots?

Is it better to thoroughly clean / dry the bore with several patches or leave some consistent level of fouling to create best seal and consistent groups? I think I am finding a less damp cleaning patch contributes to fewer hang fires.

With cleaning after shooting, what is the "best" way / options to get residual water or moisture out of the chamber and channel if the dry patches won't get down there?

Trying to clean the flame channel through the nipple orifice with a pipe cleaner doesn't seem to work. Maybe WD-40 through the little straw? And how would you get that out?

For cleaning, I'm experimenting with T/C bore cleaner, flushing with water + Dawn, Ballistol, Ballistol + water, B + W + alcohol + hydrogen peroxide, shaken, not stirred.

I know these issues have been batted around, and I am in sponge mode. Thanks in advance for your recommendations, I've learned a lot from you and the others on these forums.

 

[LR_Smoker]

Unfortunately you most likely won’t get a reply from IdahoLewis on this site because he doesn’t post here anymore. I rarely post here either due to various reasons.
FWIW I will attempt to give you my opinion on my approach. You can tap the heel of your hand against the side of the stock to encourage the powder to settle into the patent breech and on up to the nipple however by having a clean breech plug I have not been obliged to do so on my gun.
i use the Dutch Schultz method of a single slightly loose patch just misted with a 1/10 mix of Ballistol and water to clean between shots. Generally I use one side only on the 1st patch and discard and the take a fresh patch for the drying pass. On the following shot mist the opposite side of the drying patch to remove the bulk of the fowling and discard the patch after use. Repeat the process of drying with a clean dry patch and keep it for the following cleaning patch. The jag must be a slightly looser fit in the barrel so that you can slide past the fowling and on retraction it bunches up and pulls out the fowling rather than being tight and pushing it down into the patent breech. IF YOU ARE RICH in caps you can snap one before you load to push out any fowling that has stayed behind in the patent breech. By pointing the barrel down and snapping a cap you blow out the flame path.
IdahoLewis uses a steam cleaner to clean out his guns but I don’t. I pull the barrel ONLY periodically to dunk the lower 1.5” of barrel into a tin can of tepid water and using a WD40 saturated patch I SHORT stroke ( only about 1” of travel ) to draw water thru the nipple and patent breech for a through cleaning however 95% of the time I only use my Ballistol /water mix on a pipe cleaner to push out most of the dirt and on the Lyman GPR I remove the clean out screw and using a small drill I mechanically remove the carbon. Quick and easy between event at a Territorial. Using the least amount of water possible and WD40 a lot for cleaning works best for me to clean my barrels. WD40 can gum up the barrel if you leave copious quantities of it in there but if you patch dry it after cleaning and then use WD40 silicone spray you should not have any rust or gumming of the gun.
Your job is to collect as many opinions as possible and try to find the ones that suit your particular situation.
Smoke

 

[Bighorserider]

This thread has some great info I never knew. One thing I will add is that it's important to have a TC jag for TC barrels. If you are wiping between shots a flat jag will push fouling down and clog things up.

 

[Troll]

Smoke - thanks, you've given me some insight and ideas, and I've seen several references to Dutch Schultz method. I like the idea of the cleaning patch pulling out fouling on the up-stroke, and the light misting is consistent with what I am seeing in my experiments. If the cleaning patch is "dry" enough, that should reduce me pushing liquid into the chamber and the channel, and it'll grip the fouling in the rifling when it bunches up on the return stroke. In my early efforts, I was under the impression that I was "cleaning" the barrel between shots and that was causing me to push gunk and wetness into the chamber / channel. And hang fire.

Post-shoot cleaning, I've read that hot water can promote flash rust, so I agree with the tepid water; if cleaning soon enough after shooting I shouldn't need hot water to soften the fouling, I think. Also concur with short stroke and can see cleaning the chamber / channel as a separate action from cleaning the above-breech bore to the muzzle. I'm going to see how a flush nipple does to minimize pulling the barrel beyond the minimum necessary. I've read that some folks use WD-40, but I don't know where the displaced water goes. Hmmm - saturated alcohol patch to evaporate water? I'm going to experiment with popping a cap with dry patch/jagged ramrod inserted to dry out the flame channel and chamber and also limit fouling entering the bore. But then, the cap probably also lays down corrosives in the channel / chamber. If I store rifle muzzle up, residual oil can drain down into chamber / channel, and before I go to shoot I can drain the rifle muzzle down, dry patch to make sure it is clear. All this is to minimize corrosion, eliminate hang fires and get consistent groups.

For Bighorserider - thanks, I just bought a T/C .50 cal rounded fouling scraper and we'll see how that works. I don't think the flat-faced scraper will be effective if all it is doing is hitting the top of the smaller chambered opening in the breech. Also felt like my .50 cal bore brush was going to get stuck so I am going to try something like a .36 to scrub down into the chamber.

I suppose this is part of catching the BP bug...enjoying it so far!
Thanks,
Troll

 

[LR_Smoker]

Smoke - thanks, you've given me some insight and ideas, and I've seen several references to Dutch Schultz method. I like the idea of the cleaning patch pulling out fouling on the up-stroke, and the light misting is consistent with what I am seeing in my experiments. If the cleaning patch is "dry" enough, that should reduce me pushing liquid into the chamber and the channel, and it'll grip the fouling in the rifling when it bunches up on the return stroke. In my early efforts, I was under the impression that I was "cleaning" the barrel between shots and that was causing me to push gunk and wetness into the chamber / channel. And hang fire.

Post-shoot cleaning, I've read that hot water can promote flash rust, so I agree with the tepid water; if cleaning soon enough after shooting I shouldn't need hot water to soften the fouling, I think. Also concur with short stroke and can see cleaning the chamber / channel as a separate action from cleaning the above-breech bore to the muzzle. I'm going to see how a flush nipple does to minimize pulling the barrel beyond the minimum necessary. I've read that some folks use WD-40, but I don't know where the displaced water goes. Hmmm - saturated alcohol patch to evaporate water? I'm going to experiment with popping a cap with dry patch/jagged ramrod inserted to dry out the flame channel and chamber and also limit fouling entering the bore. But then, the cap probably also lays down corrosives in the channel / chamber. If I store rifle muzzle up, residual oil can drain down into chamber / channel, and before I go to shoot I can drain the rifle muzzle down, dry patch to make sure it is clear. All this is to minimize corrosion, eliminate hang fires and get consistent groups.

For Bighorserider - thanks, I just bought a T/C .50 cal rounded fouling scraper and we'll see how that works. I don't think the flat-faced scraper will be effective if all it is doing is hitting the top of the smaller chambered opening in the breech. Also felt like my .50 cal bore brush was going to get stuck so I am going to try something like a .36 to scrub down into the chamber.

I suppose this is part of catching the BP bug...enjoying it so far!
Thanks,
Troll

I have found that a quick cleaning using several misted patch’s right as soon as possible after you fire your last shot and then giving a couple of patches of WD40 has prevented any corrosion in the barrel plus it’s much easier to do a complete cleanup afterwards. The WD40 will migrate into the fowling in the patent breech and keep it soft until your full cleanup. If you can find a calibre specific jag new in your area and it’s tight there are ways to reduce the outside diameter. By using a hand drill or a drill press you can spin the jag and by using a file slowly reduce the diameter. I make my own patches from bulk material that I buy from the local fabric store. Much cheaper and a consistent thickness over thousands of patches. I have different jag diameters depending on what I’m doing to the barrel and the fit is important if you want to pull not push the fowling. I do store my firearms muzzle down so that gravity helps keep my breech area clean however if you do a good wipeout of the WD40 ( regular stuff ) and then use a saturated patch of the WD40 (silicone spray ) to prevent corrosion you shouldn’t have any breech problems. Try some on the outside of the barrel and you’ll see how it dries and leaves a barrier against rust. Cheap and effective.
Smoke

 

[Troll]

Thanks Smoke! Adding WD-40 to my box and will be giving it a try at next opportunity. It is great stuff.

 

[LR_Smoker]

Thanks Smoke! Adding WD-40 to my box and will be giving it a try at next opportunity. It is great stuff.

These are the exact WD40 components I’m referring too. I don’t work for them or anyone by the way.
Smoke