TC Hawken/Renegade Breech Plug With “Cleanout Screw” (How it was made)

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Idaholewis

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I pulled the Old TC Renegade Breech plug back out again, and popped the Barrel piece off, This is to show up close Detail of how these things were Made. Some have these Visible “Clean Out“ Screws on the side, and Some Don’t (The ones that Don’t, Actually do :)) The ones that Don’t have the Visible “Cleanout Screw” If you look closely on the Opposite side you will see a Flush Plug that is NON Removable. It is doing the EXACT same thing as the Visible “Clean out” Screw, it connects the Powder Chamber/Fire Channel Hole over to, and under the Nipple. But instead of using a Removable “Clean Out“ Screw on these ones, They used a Solid piece of Rod Stock Material to Permanently plug the Hole, they then cut it off Flush and Blue over it.

This TC Breech Plug has the Visible, Removable “Cleanout Screw” I Personally LEAVE THESE ALONE!, There is NO NEED to remove this Screw for Cleaning. It was put there because it HAD to be, due to the Way they were made, Obviously They HAD to Plug this Hole somehow. You will see Below
26yibNU.jpg


Again, If your Rifle does NOT have the Visible Cleanout Screw, Look CLOSELY on the Opposite Side and you will Spot it, Sometimes they Blend in pretty good, But you will See it :) Here is a TC Renegade WITHOUT The Visible “Clean Out“ Screw on the Side, as i Explained above, this one comes in from the Opposite Side, and is Cut off Flush, Then blued over. It is NOT uncommon to see a Small Gap around the edge of these Flush Cut plugs, like this.
X9Qb5He.jpg


Here you can see the Cut-Away Breech plug (Right) and the Barrel piece (Left) I simply popped them Apart for this Photo tutorial :lewis:
uc6OeHl.jpg


Red Arrow Pointing at the Patented Breech/Powder Chamber
TlgYL4J.jpg


TC made a “Scraper Tool“ to fit perfectly inside their Patented Breeches to Scrape out any Crud that Might Build up here, But fact is, if you Clean properly, There will be NO CRUD Build up here, I rarely ever use my TC Patented Breech Scraper Tool, the Times i have, i have got NOTHING, Which means i am Properly Cleaning, Drying, Oiling, Protecting my Barrels :lewis:
s3nCg1N.jpg


Now Here is how they made these things, They Drilled down through the Bottom of the Patented Breech/Powder Chamber at an Angle, But as you can see they were not able to Meet up under the Nipple, Pretty hard to Drill around a Corner :) So they went at this angle straight down to the Proper Depth to meet up with the Nipple, Then drilled across to meetup (See next Photo)
f4FgV1o.jpg


Now they had to Drill Across the Breech plug, Going under the Nipple, and over to Connect with the “Fire Channel“ Hole in the photo above
VsDUMfE.jpg


Now that they have the Holes Connected, This leaves a WIDE OPEN Hole in the Side of the Breech Plug, They had NO CHOICE But to Tap this Hole, and use a Plug to Fill it, This is where the Term “Cleanout Screw” Comes from, It is Put there because it HAD TO BE in order to Close off that Hole. Again, it is NOT NECESSARY To Remove this Screw for Cleaning, it is better left WELL ENOUGH ALONE
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And another photo, this time with a Nipple in place
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A modern lost foam casting would allow that fire channel to be either straighter or a less severe corner. An actual curved channel right to the nipple with no clean out screw holes on either side. I wish i had the equipment to do it myself.
 
When you hear me Say that the Green Mountain Breech Plugs are SUPERIOR in Design to the TC’s, This is what i mean. Green Mountain Breech Plugs have a Large Patented Breech/Powder Chamber That goes all the way down to the Nipple, Then simply Drilled Straight across, under The nipple to enter the Powder Chamber, and a “Cleanout screw” to Plug the Hole

7gjFnYn.jpg
 
Another view of the ACTUAL Plugs

This is a Green Mountain Breech Plug. Just like my Drawn photo above, They have a Deep Powder Chamber/Patented Breech, you can see the Cross Hole that goes over to the Nipple in the Very back, Left
wZHja0h.jpg


And here is a TC, The Green Mountain Breech Plug above is a MUCH MUCH Better Design. But these Old TC’s Work EXTREMELY well when you understand them, How they are made. You can REALLY see where the Little Handheld Steam Cleaner is a DREAM with these Old TC Hawken/Renegade Breech Plugs
Vth5BGy.jpg
 
I always thought that pin was to lock the breech to the barrel so has to not be able to remove them. Am I wrong about this? Use to have the T/C wrench to take them off for 15/16 barrel. I’m sure it will turn up someday! LOL 😂
 
When you hear me Say that the Green Mountain Breech Plugs are SUPERIOR in Design to the TC’s, This is what i mean. Green Mountain Breech Plugs have a Large Patented Breech/Powder Chamber That goes all the way down to the Nipple, Then simply Drilled Straight across, under The nipple to enter the Powder Chamber, and a “Cleanout screw” to Plug the Hole

7gjFnYn.jpg
The GM design seems most logical and simple to me in terms of making and cleaning them. Why isn't this the norm?
 
Great pictures! Thanks. I am more familiar with the Green Mountain design. I had always thought they had a small flash hole, like a flintlock, between the nipple and the powder charge. I had read an article about drilling out that hole to a larger diameter many years ago.
 
I have one of these barrels, 50 cal Renegade. What is the small screw on TOP of the barrel near the nipple? Is it a sight mount pre-drill?

Barrel.jpg
 
I have one of these barrels, 50 cal Renegade. What is the small screw on TOP of the barrel near the nipple? Is it a sight mount pre-drill?

View attachment 13293

That was for a Scope Mount, TC Made a 1 Piece Mount that utilized the 2 Rear Sight holes, and the 1 you are questioning here

This is the Mount, Red arrows pointing to the Mounting holes
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And what it looked like mounted on a Rifle, Offset for Hammer Clearance
U5M28BS.jpg
 
This was a slick way of mounting a scope without having to drill and tap the barrel.

Holden also made scope bases that utilized the same screw holes the ones I've seen came with the scope rings already fashioned to the rail but they sat up higher so you could also use a rear sight that was also fashioned to the rail.
 
That explains the hole in the renegade I picked up last year! LOL I just figured somebody had just drilled a hole to cobble up a barrel. Been known to happen! I’ve always used leupolds sight for the TC’s which became a pain with the Green Mountain barrel only having one hole for the base. Then if you want to use your TC barrel sling, more drilling! I pulled it off for a weekend gunsmith!!!
 
Another view of the ACTUAL Plugs

This is a Green Mountain Breech Plug. Just like my Drawn photo above, They have a Deep Powder Chamber/Patented Breech, you can see the Cross Hole that goes over to the Nipple in the Very back, Left
wZHja0h.jpg


And here is a TC, The Green Mountain Breech Plug above is a MUCH MUCH Better Design. But these Old TC’s Work EXTREMELY well when you understand them, How they are made. You can REALLY see where the Little Handheld Steam Cleaner is a DREAM with these Old TC Hawken/Renegade Breech Plugs
Vth5BGy.jpg

Lew, do you know how many grains of powder it takes to fill the powder chamber in a GM breech plug?
 
Just out of curiosity. If the clean out screw wasn't meant to be used as such, then why didn't TC just flush it off as they did with the latter type( the one opposite the nipple)?
Just a thought
 
I think the original thought was that people would use it but turns out that it didn't pan out .
 
And if they were not removed and Cleaned after EVERY outing, and coated with an Anti-Seize, they SEIZED up TIGHT and could not be removed Without Heat, Such as a Steam Cleaner, Then the next fella gets ahold of it and tries to Remove it, Stripping it out beyond repair.

I have removed SEVERAL that were BADLY Seized with the help of my Steam Cleaner. But FACT is, You gain NOTHING by removing the Screw. The only reason i did so was to Coat the Screw in a Good Anti Seize, then replace it, In hopes that it would be easier “if“ i ever needed to Remove it for any Reason down the Rd? To this Day i have NEVER removed one when Cleaning a Barrel, There is just no reason/Gain in doing so
 
I agree, just leave it alone and clean the gun thoroughly. I recently picked up a Renegade from 1982 and by looking at the bore and the area of the nipple I guessed it had been fired so I decided to see if the clean out screw could be removed and sure enough it was like finger tight so in this instance I will probably do as Lewis suggested and apply anti seize then forget its there.
 
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