TC triumph and new to muzzleloading

[Bradracer18]

Hey guys. I've been wanting to get into black powder hunting for quite some time, as the places I hunt my 12 ga shotgun just won't quite reach out there. And I like the idea of 1 shot 1 kill. Not to mention, we have muzzleloader only seasons.

Anyways, I went to Bass Pro, and purchased the TC Triumph Bone Collector muzzleloader, as it seems to be light, balanced, and fit me good. I like some of the options that came with the "bone collector" model. I could care less about the bone collector part haha.

Well, onto the questions...I've never shot a muzzle loader, nor loaded one (I will be getting help first time) but what all do I need in order to take down a good sized whitetail deer?

I see there are TC (I believe called shockwave) bullets, Hornady bullets, and barnes bullets at bass pro. Also pyrodex and triple 7 powder. And then, I see they take 209 primers. Well I seen 2 remmington styles and 1 winchester. I'm just wondering for starters where to start so I can get it sighted in decent, and then I can fine tune as years go. I don't know how much powder (I'd like to use the pellets like triple 7) nor how many grain bullet I need.

I think I'm going to put a "claw" sling on it with the speed loader attachment, and then if I've got it right, I need to buy a scope mount and then a scope. I'm looking at a Nikon scope right now (or Leopold) but not sure which will handle the recoil. I like my nikon buckmasters on my 12ga.

I also need advice on things like what is needed for cleaning in between shots, and then when you clean it good. Bore butter, etc. Do I need breech plug grease? a thread cleaner?

Anyways, please give advice and suggestions!

 

[Smyrnagc]

Welcome to the forum. You will find this a great place to get all your questions answered. To start, take some time and read this post that cayuga posted in the New to Muzzleloader Forum:

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... hp?t=19040

You got a great ML and you will find all the answers to your questions here.

Enjoy the ride!

 

[sabotloader]

Bradracer18

Those topics in the New to Muzzleloading Forum are an excellent place to start.. There is a lot of information that will get you started.

Once you have worked you way through those a lot of questions will be answered but then again a lot of new ones will be generated...

See what you think...

Welcome to one of the best ML informational forum you will find around... I really hope you will be able to get some 1 on 1 help locally also...

 

[atvgod82]

I can maybe help speed things up for you. I also have a Bone Collector, and I use Blackhorn 209 powder, Winchester W209 shot shell primers and Barnes Spit-Fire T-EZ 250gn bullet/sabot. I am getting 1-1/2" three shot groups at 100 yards with this combo. You will need to shoot this combo with at least two shots fired before keeping track because it levels out after that. I also have The Claw, but after reading reviews decided to NOT go with the attached speed loader. T/C makes a three tube speed loader that works great and holds four primers. I also used the T/C top rail and the scope rings with good success. At your request, I will post pictures of my entire setup, just to give you an idea.

 

[Lee 9]

I also have a Triumph and have tried all the common powders and bullets.
What works best in mine is Blackhorn powder [use Hoppes Elite cleaner or Montana X Cowboy or Blackhorn cleaner] I use synthetic oil in the barrel and remove it with alcohol before shooting. The most accurate bullet in mine is the Shock Wave either the 200 grain 50/40 0r the 250 grain I use either the 200 grain or the 250 grain Bonded for hunting. The Barnes work OK but not any better than the bonded bullets and are vary expensive. I have a Omega Nikon scope on mine and it works exactly as advertised with the 250 grain Shock Wave the 200 grain shoots flatter and is on at 250 with the 200 circle. Any good 209 primer will work I prefer the Winchester 209 for reloading shot shells.
I recommend the U-view TC powder measure and trying from 110 to 120 in 5 grain increments as most Triumphs will find the moat accurate load in that range. Do read the sticky for beginners and clean your gun after you shoot it every time no matter what anyone else tells you.

 

[Bradracer18]

Guys-

Thanks for the help thus far. I did read the sticky, prior to posting. And I've done some other reading on the site as well. I guess what the sticky doesn't tell you, is...here is a list of what you need, but what is each used for. For example, window cleaner?

Do you guys not use the already pre-made powder pellets, which seem to mostly come in 50grain increments? I was planning to use those, just for ease of usage....but if that won't work, or give good results, I won't!

I seen the shockwave bullets. So it seems for deer I'd better use in the range of 200-250grain sabot. I noticed some of the shockwaves looked to be same grain, but had different color tips? I'm not sure on what the tip coloring refers to....


And finally, back to the cleaning....is it as simple as cleaning the barrel with a cleaning agent until the swab comes out fairly clean, and then throwing a lubed one down quick then ready to shoot again? It other words, what is different than cleaning a shotgun or rifle? I keep reading about breech plug siezing and stuff of this nature. If you know what you use as cleaners/lubes/anti-siezes....let me know, so I know what I'm looking for when I go to buy!

Thanks guys, feel free to post more info/advice/pics!! I appreciate it!
Brad

 

[atvgod82]

When I get time I will post pictures of what I have going on. The window cleaner is for cleaning the barrel as it dries fast, and it just happens to smell just like the blue cleaning patches T/C sells. Blackhorn powder is much better than the pellets for accuracy and clean-ability. The tip color on the Shock Waves, if I am correct, one is bonded and one is not. Blackhorn does not need swabbed between shots, but the breech plug will need the carbon drilled out after about ten shots.

 

[atvgod82]

Top row: Altoids tins-large is first aid, small is breech plug o-rings and muzzle covers for rainy days, tins-jerky has T/C pre-saturated cleaning patches, Copenhagen has homemade dry patches(2-3/8"), primers and rubber gloves.
Middle row: Multipliers, T/C tools, bullets, brush for cleaning barrel threads, pin vise with 1/8 drill bit for cleaning carbon from breech plug, T/C breech plug GREASE, bullet starter, homemade patches, T/C U-View Powder measure and flask and T/C breech plug thread cleaning tool.
Bottom row: T/C barrel thread cleaner with pill bottle to soak breech plug in cleaner, Royal Purple gun oil for parts that need it, surplus bore cleaner, T/C cleaning and storing patches, Hoppes #9 solvent, T/C scope ring and base tools, breech plug flash channel brush, bore brush, Traditions pick, scope glass towel and T/C speed loader.
I keep all of these items except the oil and solvents in my grab and go bag which is a Maxpedition Neat Freak. My gun has T/C scope rings and base mount, Bushnell Elite 3200 DOA 250 Bone Collector Edition 3x9x40 scope, not pictured, but I added Butler Creek flip open scope covers.

 

[atvgod82]

Now for the cleaning. This is where Blackhorn powder is SO AWESOME! I will run one T/C cleaning patch down the barrel with several back and forth strokes, then flip the patch and do it again. I then take the used patch and wipe off the outside of the breech plug. I then take a dry patch and do the same as the first patch, and repeat these two steps until clean, which should not take that much to accomplish. Then I will take my pin vise with the 1/8th inch drill bit and drill the carbon out of the flash channel. Then I take my brush for the flash channel and twist it in and out a few times before soaking the breech plug in solvent/cleaner. After soaking for a bit, I rinse it off under warm water, dry it off good and use a Q-tip to swab the flash channel to get the last little build up and water out. You may have to peel some the cotton off of the Q-tip to get it to fit. I oil my firing pin with a small dab of the Royal Purple gun oil if I think it needs it, and wipe down the rest of the gun with the Royal Purple on a towel. NEVER OIL THE TRIGGER! I use compressed air to blow the dirt off the trigger and hard to reach places. Most solvents will clean Blackhorn just fine, just do not use the natural stuff that is sold, and warm soapy water will not work either. The last time I used the IMR White Hots, it took me an hour and a half to clean my gun. The last time I shot my gun was with Blackhorn and it took me about twenty minutes to clean. I am all Blackhorn thanks to the folks on this forum and I am a huge fan of Barnes bullets because of the performance I have witnessed from them, plus I do not like lead bullets for multiple reasons, mostly because of lead poisoning in wildlife. Barnes are 100% copper.

This is a Barnes bullet recovered from last years hunt. This bullet also hit bone.

 

[JStanley]

I do not like lead bullets for multiple reasons, mostly because of lead poisoning in wildlife. Barnes are 100% copper.

This is a Barnes bullet recovered from last years hunt. This bullet also hit bone.

Looks like copper poisoning can be deadly too! oke: :lol: :lol: Just funnin' ya!

 

[lefteye]

I shoot a Triumph and get one inch groups at 100 yards using 100 grains of Blackhorn, a 250 grain Hornady FTX and Harvester Crush Cib sabots. I have a Leupold 3x9 Riflemen scope that does a great job for under 200 dollars.
My best shot to date is 155 yards. The bullet does an oustanding job in terms of penetration and expansion.

 

[Hornet22savage]

You will be hard pressed to find anybody here that will reccomend pelltes, its not because they are not accurate or easy to use but mostly because of thier cost. Last time I checked a box of 100 pellets was about the same as a pound of powder. One box of pelltes gives you fifty shots, a pound of powder gives you more and I don't know the exact figures but they are here somewhere. As others have mentioned loose gives you more control to fine tune your load for best accuracy, sometimes 10 grs. can tighten a group right up. Get yourself some speed loaders or some of the Lanes tubes form Lane on here and reloading a field is just as fast as pellets. Many of us on here wrap our breech plugs in teflon tape either the white stuff or the pink. I don't know thew difference I use white because I have not seen the pink. You can use grease to prevent seizure up it makes a mess and can be hard to clean out for the threads. I my expirience it also catches powder if you should ever have a need to remove your plug and push out a load. The shockwave tips are as follows yellow and jacketed and blue are bonded. I hear some people say they don't like the bonded ones as them don't expand well, as a cheaper option I buy bulk sabots from MMP and buy boxes or either .452 pistol bullets or .458 rifle bullets and get more shots cheaper then buying prepackaged. My current load is a .430 265 gr. FTX in a MMP Green sabot over 120 gr. BH209 and lit off by a W209 shotshell primer. Most important is to go out have fun anf be safe.

 

[Lee 9]

A few of the things you do not need with a Triumph.
If you use Blackhorn you do not need breach plug grease if you use 777 you do need breach plug grease as it will freeze your breach plug in the barrel.
If you use Blackhorn you do not need to swab between shots, it is most accurate if you don't if you use 777 you will probably get what we call crudring about 75 to 80 % do it has to be scrubbed completely out or you can not seat your next load this could be a dangerous situation if ignored and shot that way.
Pyrodex the original sub, wiping between shots gives the best accuracy but you can normally get 3 or more shots off in a hunting situation with acceptable accuracy.
If you use Blackhorn all you need is some h
Hoppes Elite cleaner or some Montana X Cowboy or Blackhorn cleaner and some synthetic gun oil some patches [cloth ] and I prefer to the the oil out with alcohol so it does not crud up the barrel and cause inaccuracy for the first few shots.
If you use loose powder a good volume measure is the normal way to go some use a powder scale and weight each load but it is not necessary.
A good range rod is some thing I would suggest, though some people get along with just a ramrod.
If you go with Blackhorn it is more expensive some of us believe it is worth it.
with Blackhorn the stuff for swabbing between shots is not necessary, that being windshield washer and other such stuff you can clean when you get home with a few passes of Hoppes Elite or the Montana X cleaners made for muzzle loading or black powder the other one don't work so good.
If you use any of the subs other than Blackhorn you will need all that other stuff and to keep it with you when ever you shoot.

 

[Bradracer18]

Guys-

Thank you so much for the help! I'm sold already on the Blackhorn powder! I'm headed to pick this stuff up tomorrow, and begin shooting when I find time.

Again, I appreciate all the help, and please if you have more to add feel free to!

 

[Bradracer18]

Guys, came up with a couple simple/stupid questions...

Do I need to use the provided breech plug wrench to tighten up the breach plug each time, or is hand tight good enough? If a guy could do it by hand, would be much simplier!

Also, when seating the sabot with my rod, do I need to use the screw on attachment that has a small dish to seat the sabot? I'm just trying to understand how you reload in the field, if you have to pull your rod out, screw that tip on, and then reload? Or does the provided rod work most generally.....

Oh, and do you guys use the primer "wrench" thing to put the primer in? Or can this be done by hand?


Thanks!
Brad

 

[Hornet22savage]

I don't have a Triumph so I don't know about the breech plug or loading the primer. However I do use a loading tip. I installed my tip and then cut my rod so it fit under the barrel. There are other products out there some use the barnes loader tip, the one I use was a kit put out by CVA it came with three different tips for loading all sorts of bullert types. Most people are using the Spinjag attachment, I personally do not have one but bought one for my father last christmas. The company the sells them will make you a custom ram rod that will fit your gun with jag installed. Just google spin jag.

 

[ronlaughlin]

If you can cock the hammer after installing the breech plug by hand, you don't need the wrench. Installing and removing primers by hand without a tool is fine if you can.

 

[atvgod82]

Since I use the Barnes bullets, I bought the Barnes jag for loading my specific bullet and put it on my T/C bullet starter. I will start the bullet with the correct jag on the T handle, then finish it off with just the ram rod with no jag on the end. It does leave a small ring on the polymer tip but never seems to affect accuracy. I have never needed the primer tool or the breech plug tool, although I do keep both of them in my pack just in case.