The best bullet

Modern Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Modern Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Mnt monkey

Well-Known Member
*
Joined
Jan 7, 2020
Messages
2,204
Reaction score
5,743
What's the best bullet for the muzzleloader? sometimes it seems like all we talk about is performance and not accuracy, me coming from a centerfire long distance target background, distant shooting and target shooting over the years led me away from partitions and Barnes bullets and other solid bullets, not because they didn't perform but because in my shooting accuracy became more important than bullet performance. The most common issue stressed with bullet topics and muzzleloaders is a bullet that holds together mushrooms well and passes through. And I would have to agree that's important,, again as I look back the last 20 years at all the deer I've shot with a 6 mm or 6.5 with an open tip hollow point and never ever really have lost one,, in the days where I did hunt with the big game bullets in high velocity rifles I had multiple pass-throughs in the upper part of the body and the deer just run off or run a long ways now if all you're looking for is a blood trail and the surety of a blood trail I guess that's okay I really like to get up to the deer and he's dead rather than look for a blood trail. It is somewhat amazing that the military over the years for the most part shoots hollow points I wonder why they went to that? You would think if the solid bullets perform better that's what all of our military would be shooting and I know they still shoot some full jacket but not too much most of the sniper rifles and the accuracy rifles are shooting hollow point target type bullets as we speak today unless it's something highly specialized at shooting armor piercing etc.. this is my side of this discussion, I do not have a problem with the bullet getting into animal's chest and blowing up ,fragmenting I have a problem with the bullet blowing up on the surface of an animal's shoulder which honestly I haven't had but I've heard other people experience that,, even when a jacket separates from a bullet and it fragments and comes apart where do you think that bullet dumps all of its energy at? The mushroom solid bullet keeps going it hasn't dumped all of its energy in a deer's chest cavity,,, I guess this sounds more but I would have to ask myself if I was going to get shot in the chest would I rather get shot with a solid bullet that mushroomed or would I rather get shot with a bullet that got inside my chest and blew up, to me the answer is clear. The ideal situation for me would be to find a performance solid bullet that put bullets in the same hole. When I was doing all the accuracy shooting what kept me away from even looking or thinking about starting to muzzle load was most of the muzzleloaders I had ever had any exposure to were happy if they hit a pie plate at 100 yards,, I still often see guys commenting about an inch and a half to 3-in group at 100 yards is fine and I agree it'll kill a deer consider this though when the adrenaline's pumping and your heart is beating hard you're inch and a half 3-in rifle becomes a 6 to 8 inch rifle real quick you can't help it it's going to when you get out past the hundred yards if you're shooting out to 2 or 300 yards what do you think is going to happen then it will be double. I've been able to get every muzzleloader that I have had in my hands to at least shoot 3/4 of an inch or less some of them quarter inch and less and do it very consistently,, easy to do that sitting on the bench ,for some of us it is and this is what it is to me my three-quarter- half inch rifle when my heart is beating and a deer is out there may very well be an inch and a half rifle just because of physical things going on in my body,, I tend to function better with adrenaline pumping, some men do in sports some men absolutely crater,,,,, which is it for you? Looking back over the last 30 years I sure trailed more deer with solid bullets than I ever did with hollow points I'll probably remain in the accuracy hollow point camp the rest of my life,,, most of the bullets that I've hunted with the last 5 years absolutely failed Ron's bullet test on this site,, and yet I've had tremendous performance nothing like the bullets that we see in the test,,, the bottom line for me is bullet confidence it really entails both accuracy and performance doesn't it. I really appreciate the topics of discussion on this and the different perspectives. I managed to hit where I aim,,, if I couldn't ,, I would head to Big lead island!
 
,,, most of the bullets that I've hunted with the last 5 years absolutely failed Ron's bullet test on this site,, and yet I've had tremendous performance nothing like the bullets that we see in the test,,, the bottom line for me is bullet confidence it really entails both accuracy and performance doesn't it..........
I have also had excellent performance from bullets that did not pass "the test". However, I appreciate the tests.

IMO for hunting, shot placement is #1 and to have consistent shot placements, a bullet must be accurate (including the shooter of course).
With the correct shot placement, you can harvest with a marble. Even the best bullet, if there is one, becomes a poor bullet with poor shot placement.
 
In all my contributions to this subject in different threads I agree accuracy is absolutely number one. Put a hole in the vitals and it will die. Even a little hole. If you need to do a little tracking that to me is part of hunting. Ive never walked up to a dead deer and was disappointed my bullet didn't hit exactly the point I was aiming at.

I converse with a group of youngsters that labor over broad heads for deer. I tease them that I could take a target arrow and kill all the deer I want. The same applies, put a hole in the vitals and they will die.

We overthink these things, but that's part of the fun and conversation we share. The next improvement in ballistics will likely come from someone who has a deeper understanding of the conversations we have. A statement will be made and a light will go off in their head.

Ron, those bullet tests are great. Thank you.
 
Last edited:
In all my contributions to this subject in different threads I agree accuracy is absolutely number one. Put a hole in the vitals and it will die. Even a little hole. If you need to do a little tracking that to me is part of hunting. Ive never walked up to a dead deer and was disappointed my bullet didn't hit exactly the point I was aiming at.

I converse with a group of youngsters that labor over broad heads for deer. I tease them that I could take a target arrow and kill all the deer want. The same applies, put a hole in the vitals and they will die.

We overthink these things, but that's part of the fun and conversation we share. The next improvement in ballistics will likely come from someone who has a deeper understanding of the conversations we have. A statement will be made and a light will go off in their head.

Ron, those bullet tests are great. Thank you.
1656170166017.png1656170166017.pngRight on
 
Thanks for starting this discussion Mtn Monkey! I always learn something here reading others thoughts.

Our military’s adoption of expanding ammo, as I understand it, is a very recent change. Here’s some interesting reading on the subject:

https://www.justsecurity.org/25200/dod-law-war-manual-returns-hollow-point-bullets-armed-conflict/
That said, I agree that an effective bullet has to balance accuracy and terminal performance. As I’ve said before, I think most bullets are adequate for whitetails at short ranges. The “two pellets and a Powerbelt” crowd has proven this. We should remember though that we are not all whitetail hunters. Elk (and many other species of big game), for example, can be much harder to kill (and recover) than smaller deer-sized game. It’s not enough to kill an animal, we have to recover it quickly. I’ve personally seen .30 cal bullets from centerfire rifles explode on an elk’s shoulder and fail to penetrate even 4 inches. Ive seen an elk dropped in its tracks with a .223 head-shot at 311 yards. I’ve also seen numerous instances of lost elk where the bullet did not exit and the hunter was unable to recover the animal because of a lack of a blood trail.

Accuracy alone doesn’t cut it! This is especially true on hard quartering shots. We only get one shot with a muzzy (most of the time) on animals. Rifle hunters can keep sending lead till the animal is out of sight or on the ground.

Of corse we all know there is no “perfect” anything. To me the ideal muzzy bullet for any particular species is sufficiently accurate, expands, creates massive damage to vitals and exits for a good blood trail if needed. That’s a tall order in many cases.

I agree with your bottom line, Mtn Monkey. And…..I too have stopped shooting Barnes and Partitions for the most part because they aren’t as accurate as I’d like in my rifles.
 
In all my contributions to this subject in different threads I agree accuracy is absolutely number one. Put a hole in the vitals and it will die. Even a little hole. If you need to do a little tracking that to me is part of hunting. Ive never walked up to a dead deer and was disappointed my bullet didn't hit exactly the point I was aiming at.

I converse with a group of youngsters that labor over broad heads for deer. I tease them that I could take a target arrow and kill all the deer want. The same applies, put a hole in the vitals and they will die.

We overthink these things, but that's part of the fun and conversation we share. The next improvement in ballistics will likely come from someone who has a deeper understanding of the conversations we have. A statement will be made and a light will go off in their head.

Ron, those bullet tests are great. Thank you.
You really said that very well.
 
I've been hunting and shooting muzzleloaders for years but I must admit that I'm not really experienced with too many different bullets. Started out with the simple round ball, moved up to the old Buffalo Bullet Company Ball-ettes, then on to the Thompson Center Maxi Hunters.
I still shoot round ball and the TC's. Buffalo Bullet Company is long gone now but the Hornady PA conicals are very similar, which is what I use today.
I do enjoy reading about other's experiences with different sabot bullets but I must say that I don't always understand what I'm reading.
I'm just old school, I guess. Fixed blade broadheads and lead bullets have put meat on my table for years.
I keep my shots close and put em where they need to go, at least most of the time.
I know I'm an old dog but I still can learn new things from the great members here.
Jim
 
I switched to 140 grain Berger vld a couple years ago. Since then my accuracy has inproved, i like 1/4-3/4" groups out of all my rifles. We have shot several deer at 400 yds. With the 6.5 creedmoors and have gotten complete pass threws, and tremendous blood trails. These are hollow point bullets that fly awesome....
 
Thinking back on the thread about pellets rtallz had the other day, I guess I'm in the same study here too. Its all about what bullet, like the powder choice, works for you. For paper I use XTPs in my 50's and 45 cal. On meat I use Barnes bullets. I have the utmost confidence using either brand with known charges for each of my guns and again I say, confidence is right at the top of my list. Both bullet brands do me great on whitetails. For bear I rely on the XTPs.
 
If I was hunting a Wooly Mammoth using a sharp rock on the end of a stick, I would aim for the center of the chest cavity.

If I was a buffalo hunter with bullets that might be considered inferior these days, I would aim for the center of the chest cavity.

If I was using the best modern centerfire rifle with the best hollowpoint bullet in the world, I would aim for the center of the chest cavity.

Why? The chest cavity is a large target, and a hole in the chest cavity normally causes the lungs to collapse due to the negative pressure produced by the diaphragm. No Oxygen in the blood produces certain death. A wound in this area also often causes tremendous blood loss. However, the collapse of the lungs is more deadly.
.
 
A wound in this area also often causes tremendous blood loss. However, the collapse of the lungs is more deadly.
A few years ago our boy shot a deer; the bullet hit back in the chest, and missed both lungs; went through the diaphragm, and out the other side. The bullet hit nothing; did no damage to anything. The deer ran up hill; we thought oh oh. Not very far at all up there we came on the deer; dead. It was weird. No blood loss, no tissue damage, but a dead deer.

Many many years ago when we lived in Montana, when elk tags were all of $3, i shot an elk through both lungs. It ran off, and died real shortly. What i remember the most is the tiny holes the bullet made in the lungs. They were a bluish tinge, and there was no damage to speak of to the lungs, except for the blue holes. Never used that bullet ever again. My first elk tag cost $1, back in the day when one could afford to take one's children hunting; it was sweet.
 
Helping a friend of mine shoot,, I wanted to try that Big 400 grain Northern precision bullet run tested it a while back at mushrooms very well I haven't shot the bullet smokeless this is three shots at 100 yards with 57 grains of 4198,,,, maybe this is the perfect bullet I don't think anything's going to walk away from it and it sure looks accurate enough ,, for smokeless in the 400 grain bullet, I'm going to play with this bullet in this load a little bit more I'll report on it.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20220626_183802293_HDR.jpg
    IMG_20220626_183802293_HDR.jpg
    46.7 KB · Views: 0
Adrenaline is a funny thing. I thought I had gotten past the buck-fever stage a couple decades back. I filled enough tags, and took enough laps around the sun, and felt like that helped me get it under control. Then about six years ago, I finally had a real cover-of-Outdoor-Life muley in my sights, and in range. Staring at me. And I missed. Twice. I never miss twice. Now, I'm trying yoga and meditation. I'll report back on how that works when I find such a buck again.

Oh, for ml bullets, I am newly in love with the No Excuse .50 cal 420 grain. By far the most accurate conical I've tried, and I did not need a blood trail for the deer, cow elk, or antelope I harvested with it last fall.
 
Last edited:
My uncle's a competitive bench press shooter in the region that I live in usually if he's at a match he's going to be the first second or third,, I cannot tell you how many times I've been hunting with him and have him text me on the phone or get up to him at the end of the day frantic because he shot a deer four or five times ,,, I've had to go out in the bushes and finish many a deer for him or get up to a deer and there's five bullet holes in him from one end of him to the other,, you put a Target out in front of him and a bench and it's a different world,,, even those of us who can handle adrenaline let it get to us every once in awhile I had an experience two seasons ago won't even go through it it was very humbling.
 
Helping a friend of mine shoot,, I wanted to try that Big 400 grain Northern precision bullet run tested it a while back at mushrooms very well I haven't shot the bullet smokeless this is three shots at 100 yards with 57 grains of 4198,,,, maybe this is the perfect bullet I don't think anything's going to walk away from it and it sure looks accurate enough ,, for smokeless in the 400 grain bullet, I'm going to play with this bullet in this load a little bit more I'll report on it.
Do you have any pressure information on that load?
 
Back
Top