The best bullet

[Mnt monkey]

No I don't have any pressure readings on that I would be very careful of a bullet that large

 

[Mnt monkey]

And I shot that in a big barrel number 17 contour with a full shank.

 

[MrTom]

Any breach of the vacuum inside the chest cavity will kill the animal as the lungs will collapse. You don't have to hit the lungs, just pierce the lining around them, and the lungs will collapse and the animal suffocates.

 

[toytruck]

High shoulder shots will drop a deer in it's tracks! I've done it many times with the big lead conicals and corelokt bullet's.
Just last Monday I killed a big doe between two corn fields ( kill permit).
30-06 corelokt 165 gr. dropped her right there, no tracking needed!

 

[Okie Hog]

One thing is of paramount importance, bullet placement. A high shoulder shot or high just behind the shoulder shot will do the job 100 percent of the time. That shot interrupts the central nervous system; bang flop. Sometimes the backstrap is bruised.

For years i tracked wounded deer and elk for other hunters. Despite claims like: "i double lunged that animal", the vast majority of the animals i located were gut shot. Some hunters had little idea where the animal was standing when shot or from which direction the animal came.

Most of my shots on deer are at ranges of <60 yards. Most are killed with muzzleloaders, some are killed with patched round balls like Grand Pa used. Properly placed round balls kill as effectively as a .30-06 and 180 grain bullets. About half of my shots on deer and hogs are bang flops. It's been at least ten years since the last deer went over 50 yards after being shot.

IMO: Savvy hunters don't take "hard quartering shots", aka raking shots. In 1968 i hunted on a Wyoming ranch. The ranch manager put me with four hunters from the NE US. The well heeled hunters poked fun at my worn 1903 Springfield sporter and my Army parka. One morning i dropped off where fresh elk tracks in the snow crossed the road. i killed a huge 6x6 bull.

Those guys killed one nice elk and wounded four others with their long raking shots. They were not allowed to hunt that ranch again.

Killed a large buck last season with my Encore at a range of 40 yards; neither the lungs or heart were hit, but the animal bang flopped. Bullet was the 250 grain SST.

 

[Mnt monkey]

Your experiences have been very similar to mine I'm a high shoulder man. I will always be bullet placement above bullet performance and yes it's nice to have both!

 

[Mnt monkey]

I'm surprised how many hunters there are out there that have just not learned if they don't have the shot they need let the animal walk!! I don't hunt very well around people like that one of the reasons why I primarily hunt alone.

 

[Harley469]

Thanks for starting this discussion Mtn Monkey! I always learn something here reading others thoughts.

Our military’s adoption of expanding ammo, as I understand it, is a very recent change. Here’s some interesting reading on the subject:

https://www.justsecurity.org/25200/dod-law-war-manual-returns-hollow-point-bullets-armed-conflict/
That said, I agree that an effective bullet has to balance accuracy and terminal performance. As I’ve said before, I think most bullets are adequate for whitetails at short ranges. The “two pellets and a Powerbelt” crowd has proven this. We should remember though that we are not all whitetail hunters. Elk (and many other species of big game), for example, can be much harder to kill (and recover) than smaller deer-sized game. It’s not enough to kill an animal, we have to recover it quickly. I’ve personally seen .30 cal bullets from centerfire rifles explode on an elk’s shoulder and fail to penetrate even 4 inches. Ive seen an elk dropped in its tracks with a .223 head-shot at 311 yards. I’ve also seen numerous instances of lost elk where the bullet did not exit and the hunter was unable to recover the animal because of a lack of a blood trail.

Accuracy alone doesn’t cut it! This is especially true on hard quartering shots. We only get one shot with a muzzy (most of the time) on animals. Rifle hunters can keep sending lead till the animal is out of sight or on the ground.

Of corse we all know there is no “perfect” anything. To me the ideal muzzy bullet for any particular species is sufficiently accurate, expands, creates massive damage to vitals and exits for a good blood trail if needed. That’s a tall order in many cases.

I agree with your bottom line, Mtn Monkey. And…..I too have stopped shooting Barnes and Partitions for the most part because they aren’t as accurate as I’d like in my rifles.

Of corse we all know there is no “perfect” anything. To me the ideal muzzy bullet for any particular species is sufficiently accurate, expands, creates massive damage to vitals and exits for a good blood trail if needed. That’s a tall order in many cases.

That is precisely what we are all looking for- this is why I like the idea of bonded bullets (in theory). Of course the other issue with that is expansion at all distances, with a variety of powder charges.

 

[Mnt monkey]

Spent a lot of time as a Young Man working and guiding for hunting outfits in South Texas and Northern Mexico,, I couldn't count how many animals I've seen shot poorly even with great bullets,, those years spent out in the brush country retrieving wounded animals taught me a lot about bullet placement and about the ethics of when to shoot and not shoot,, and I'm sure not putting myself on a pedestal I've hit deer poorly before,, but the last 20 years changing overtime how I hunt and how I shoot and where I choose to put a bullet and when, I haven't lost very many animals in those last 20 years very very few I flat out missed a couple of them but I haven't lost any..

 

[Okie Hog]

I don't hunt very well around people like that one of the reasons why I primarily hunt alone.

Me too.

There is one problem with bonded and monolithic bullets with high weight retention. They sometimes exit without expending adequate energy inside the target animal. Result, the animal runs a long ways.

The 250 grain SST bullet that struck the buck in my photo above did not exit. It expended all it's energy inside the animal.

 

[Mnt monkey]

I know there's the pass-through blood trail camp and I understand that and I can even agree with that somewhat,,, but experience, my own experience not so much reading that of others, I would rather my bullet dump its energy in that animal's chest than blow out the other side and leave me a blood trail that's just me,,, all the years of trailing wounded animals for other people I haven't seen too many animals that had a bullet blow up inside their chest run very far.i have seen deer hit with partitions and solid copper run for a mile!

 

[D55]

Last season with sml Most of the deer I shot (rib cage) had fist size entrance and exit, no tracking drt. This is with xtp mag 240gr and 245gr interlock bullets. Properly placed shots with frangible bullets don't damage enough meat to worry about ime. I do however like copper solids and have had both drt and also had them go as far as 125yds with a through both shoulders shot. Deer can be tough, they are running on adrenaline til they pass out from lack of oxygen to the brain and can travel a good distance in 8 seconds with no heart.

 

[mnoland30]

The liightest muzzleloader bullet I've hit a deer is 300 gr. With a bullet that heavy, you can have your cake and eat it too. Massive damage, and pass through. The tradeoff, of course, is the recoil. Inside 200 yards, I've never hit a deer with a muzzleloader that wasn't DRT. Past 250, the results weren't as good, so I limit myself to 225 yards. Both deer died, but not quickly enough to be what I consider ethical.

FredB, when you don't get that hit of adrenaline anymore, you're just filling the freezer.

MNT Monkey, I'd like to hear what you're shooting, and do you hunt elk?

 

[Mnt monkey]

I've never hunted elk,, in all of my muzzleloaders I try to hone in on the most accurate and also the heaviest bullet my rifle will shoot,, I guess I can explain that a little further I shoot the heaviest bullet that I can consistently handle on the bench I know if I can handle that heavy recoil there in the field it's going to be nothing I try to shoot the heaviest bullet possible not so much for bullet performance, expansion etc, but for BC sectional density and carrying energy down range,, and yes that certainly part of a bullet's performance . In my 1 and 28 twist factory rifles I stay for the most part with a 250 to 275 grain bullet,, in the one in 2012 and the one in 18 and some of the faster twist rifles I'm always trying to shoot the heaviest bullet that I can put in a single hole,, I don't obsess so much on three shot and five shot groups even though I shoot them a lot ,I really look for two shots touching out of a cold barrel, that's the most I'm going to get in the field hunting. I'm always looking for a new bullet to shoot or something that other muzzleloaders may have passed up available Nationwide you'd be surprised what's out there if you beat the bushes,, should be shooting some 400 grain bullets this weekend I think they would be devastating on elk I'll let everyone know.

 

[Ninering62]

Last season with sml Most of the deer I shot (rib cage) had fist size entrance and exit, no tracking drt. This is with xtp mag 240gr and 245gr interlock bullets. Properly placed shots with frangible bullets don't damage enough meat to worry about ime. I do however like copper solids and have had both drt and also had them go as far as 125yds with a through both shoulders shot. Deer can be tough, they are running on adrenaline til they pass out from lack of oxygen to the brain and can travel a good distance in 8 seconds with no heart.

I've seen deer hit with a 12ga slug & have its whole lower intestines draggin the ground & run over 100yds. I've seen them heart shot with slugs & run over 100yds. I've seen them double lung shot & run 250-300yds too.
I changed my philosophy on shot placement from behind the shoulder, lungs or pump station to neck or head shots - takin out the central nervous system & droppin them in their tracks. NO tracking, NO blood trail needed & field dressing is no more of a mess than it has to be & ZERO meat damage or loss. I'll only take a high shoulder shot on a really long shot or a running shot just bc its easier for me to still hit.

 

[Ninering62]

I've never hunted elk,, in all of my muzzleloaders I try to hone in on the most accurate and also the heaviest bullet my rifle will shoot,, I guess I can explain that a little further I shoot the heaviest bullet that I can consistently handle on the bench I know if I can handle that heavy recoil there in the field it's going to be nothing I try to shoot the heaviest bullet possible not so much for bullet performance, expansion etc, but for BC sectional density and carrying energy down range,, and yes that certainly part of a bullet's performance . In my 1 and 28 twist factory rifles I stay for the most part with a 250 to 275 grain bullet,, in the one in 2012 and the one in 18 and some of the faster twist rifles I'm always trying to shoot the heaviest bullet that I can put in a single hole,, I don't obsess so much on three shot and five shot groups even though I shoot them a lot ,I really look for two shots touching out of a cold barrel, that's the most I'm going to get in the field hunting. I'm always looking for a new bullet to shoot or something that other muzzleloaders may have passed up available Nationwide you'd be surprised what's out there if you beat the bushes,, should be shooting some 400 grain bullets this weekend I think they would be devastating on elk I'll let everyone know.

I understand the value of what a heavy bullet does at longer ranges & slower MV's T that that is far more utilized in ML shooting than CF shooting. Since I only hunt with ML's & am finally into the 21st century of what muzzleloading & its bullets have evolved into, I prefer to push for more CF ballistics with lighter bullets at faster, flatter trajectories with much less flight time from muzzle to target & take all that hydrostatic shock they do. I think its great that you are open to the never-ending learning curve of always tryin new bullets & loads out in diff barrels & barrel twists. And the never-ending plight for one hole groups. I've learned from you that 3-5 shot groups are strictly for the shooters confidence in his ability to shoot consistently. 2 shot groups are for the security of knowing that your gun will have the same repeatability in your follow-up shot if needed or to take more than one critter down. I found that knowledge & philosophy very valuable.

 

[Mnt monkey]

Just a little bit more on the two touching,, when I'm working up a load I really search for a two touching load,, but some of that is just the personality of a particular barrel,, doesn't take long to figure that out, if my barrel needs to be fouled to do the two shot touching I'm certainly going to be hunting with a foul barrel,, if I'm fortunate enough to have a really great barrel that shoots a clean bore in the same place as the next bullet then I'm going to hunt with that too. Now if the barrels and guns I'm shooting are stacking three shot groups and five shot groups well that's just all more the better it's telling me a lot about my barrel's abilities but I'm talking about hunting accuracy and hunting expectations,,, I better not need a five shot one hole gun when I'm hunting,, even though I may demand it! However I really like knowing I have that two shot touching gun sitting in my lap.,,,, How many of you out walking ,,not sitting in a deer stand have walked up on a big buck thought you had the deer in your sights pull the trigger and just flat missed him and the deer stood there and let you reload and got a second shot off,, happened to me a couple of years ago with one of my one hole guns I'm sure it was just the gun and not me ,,no it was me,,, the deer made a fool out of me and actually laughed out loud before he turned and walked off all the fancy target shooting and ego,, all the one hole groups and fancy loads and I couldn't hit the side of a barn with a bomb,,, sometimes a perfect bullet just isn't enough is it,,, I sure like believing in my rifle and my bullet. That means a lot to me.

 

[Harley469]

Just a little bit more on the two touching,, when I'm working up a load I really search for a two touching load,, but some of that is just the personality of a particular barrel,, doesn't take long to figure that out, if my barrel needs to be fouled to do the two shot touching I'm certainly going to be hunting with a foul barrel,, if I'm fortunate enough to have a really great barrel that shoots a clean bore in the same place as the next bullet then I'm going to hunt with that too. Now if the barrels and guns I'm shooting are stacking three shot groups and five shot groups well that's just all more the better it's telling me a lot about my barrel's abilities but I'm talking about hunting accuracy and hunting expectations,,, I better not need a five shot one hole gun when I'm hunting,, even though I may demand it! However I really like knowing I have that two shot touching gun sitting in my lap.,,,, How many of you out walking ,,not sitting in a deer stand have walked up on a big buck thought you had the deer in your sights pull the trigger and just flat missed him and the deer stood there and let you reload and got a second shot off,, happened to me a couple of years ago with one of my one hole guns I'm sure it was just the gun and not me ,,no it was me,,, the deer made a fool out of me and actually laughed out loud before he turned and walked off all the fancy target shooting and ego,, all the one hole groups and fancy loads and I couldn't hit the side of a barn with a bomb,,, sometimes a perfect bullet just isn't enough is it,,, I sure like believing in my rifle and my bullet. That means a lot to me.

Reminds me of an incident about 4 years ago when I was hunting with my Remington Ultimate in late season (late December or January). I had about an 80 yard broad side shot on a big mature 10pt- I fired and he just stood there. I had never missed a deer with that gun and I was dumbfounded. I had my 500 S&W pistol with me so I didn't reload. I fired and that hit him (came to find it only hit the underside of his belly and just blew some hair off him fortunately). At that point I reloaded my muzzy and continued to hunt. A coyote came in and I took about a 50 yard shot at him- totally missed. I went home to see what was up, because I knew something wasn't right. I came to find that the barrel had become slightly loose from the stock and I couldn't even put a bullet on paper. After tightening it back up and a few shots I was back within an inch group at 100 yrds. I never saw that buck again, but a lesson in frequently checking your guns/bows/scopes/all equipment.

 

[rangerod]

I would hope we all do. Ive been hunting for 35 years and there is always more to learn.

Always something to learn no matter the subject.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

I've killed more deer with bullets that started with .4 and ended with XTP than any other.
.40 cal- a doe and a buck with the 180 grain and a doe with the 200.
4 doe with the 240 grain .44 cal
14 with the 250 grain .45
2 doe with the 300 grain, non magnum. 45.
We're there no other bullets available, I'd be content.