The diy or cheaper alternative muzzle loader information for beginners with smaller budgets.

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Gabpan

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Jun 17, 2020
Messages
109
Please post some do-it-yourself solutions for muzzleloaders. Still looking for a good alternative to anti seize.

Share your information here I will start. Whatever do it yourself solution, frugal solution or otherwise please let me know if you tried it or just heard about it.

....Do-it-yourself bore cleaning solution....

Equal parts of Murphy's oil soap hydrogen peroxide and rubbing alcohol.
I have not tried this heard about it on the web. Supposedly the peroxide is really tough on black powder the alcohol is there to remove the water and the oil soaps purpose is that it cleans providing an oil base as well as not to strip out all the oils.
Of course after cleaning you'd want to re oil your bore.

....Finishing protection oil....
I use plain mineral oil in all my guns. Airguns, modern firearms and now muzzleloaders.
It's no secret mineral oil has been used by gunsmiths for years as an oil protective barrier. Not great for metal on metal lubrication. But it travels and carries so good cleaning oil.
Many manufacturers use mineral oil to provide protection against rust during storage.
 

sdporter

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Joined
Sep 19, 2017
Messages
890
Teflon tape on the breech plug. Mine always used to get stuck on my Whites. They don’t anymore.
Windex for cleaning black powder or black powder substitutes. You can get the off brands for a couple of bucks and that’s enough for several hundred cleanings. I think it even works better on BH 209 than the BH 209 solvent does, at least it does on the breech plug.
 
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Gabpan

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Joined
Jun 17, 2020
Messages
109
Teflon tape on the breech plug. Mine always used to get stuck on my Whites. They don’t anymore.
Windex for cleaning black powder or black powder substitutes. You can get the off brands for a couple of bucks and that’s what bought for several hundred cleanings. I think it even works better on BH 209 than the BH 209 solvent does, at least it does on the breech plug.
I think I'm going to go ahead and try this. I looked up the specs on the pink tape which they have at home Depot for about 3 bucks. The specs say that it is safe to about 500 degrees Fahrenheit. typical black powder and black substance powder substitutes burn at 700 to 750 degrees Fahrenheit.
For the purpose though it looks like it works. I mean if you're only going to take about 10 shots maybe 20 would be pushing it.

I got a chance to take a look at a photo of somebody that ran about 10 shots for the barrel and it looked good the taped it don't look disintegrated at all.
 

coupe

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
20
I use alcohol and water for cleaning then gun oil for protection.
One note for gabpan, we use mineral oil for aircraft engine break in after rebuild untill it settles down then the oil of choice can be used, as long as it is correct for the engine.
 

fourbore

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Joined
Mar 25, 2020
Messages
155
Anti sieze, I think is not needed. I uses grease, any grease, moly, RIG, whatever. I remove plug to clean everytime I shoot. I am not trying to cheap out. In fact, I have a bottle of Loktite anti seize. I dont belive it is apprepriate or needed on a breech plug, Not on a CVA, which is honestly all I can speak to. And I dont use 777 or Pyrodex ever.

I clean black powder with dish washing soap and water. I clean Blackhorn 209 with Hoppes No9. I currently use CLP for a final clean up and coating. Long term storage I use RIG grease. I am very very careful about cleaning and storage. Trigger mechanism and fine lock work get a few drops of Lucas Extreme. The Lucas is IMHO the best gun oil money can buy. I do not presume to say my way is right or better. I did put a lot of thought and in some cases with decades use into these choices. It is my way.
 
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sdporter

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Joined
Sep 19, 2017
Messages
890
I think I'm going to go ahead and try this. I looked up the specs on the pink tape which they have at home Depot for about 3 bucks. The specs say that it is safe to about 500 degrees Fahrenheit. typical black powder and black substance powder substitutes burn at 700 to 750 degrees Fahrenheit.
For the purpose though it looks like it works. I mean if you're only going to take about 10 shots maybe 20 would be pushing it.

I got a chance to take a look at a photo of somebody that ran about 10 shots for the barrel and it looked good the taped it don't look disintegrated at all.
After 15 shots with real black powder . You can see some fouling got into the straight section where the threads have been removed. None got into the threads though.
 

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GM54-120

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On a CVA QRBP you need no tape or anti sieze. Give it a very light coat of synthetic oil or grease. RiG would probably work well for this. Just wipe off the excess so its not messy.

Windex and isopropyl makes a handy swabbing solution. It wont freeze, evaporates fast and easy to make up some patches ahead of time. For cleaning anything but BH209 just use Dawn dish soap and water. Citrus cleaners work too. Pick one.

WD40 or Brake Clean will dissipate water after using a water based cleaner. ISO-HEET will also and its cheap/safe. Virtually non toxic compared to other products. ISO based fuel line deicers have no added water like drug store ISO usually has.

Use good synthetic oils for stuff like internal trigger/hammer assemblies. Any of them that wont gum up and only leaves a light film of oil. Those areas on most break actions are far harder to inspect and thoroughly clean.

RiG is a great long term storage product but it can be a bit messy. WD40 Long Term Corrosion Inhibitor is really good stuff too. Its just stupid expensive. In case you didnt know, both Ballistol and Montana X-treme Bore Condition are mostly light medical grade mineral oil. You can buy a gallon of that mineral oil on Amazon cheap.
 

fourbore

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Mar 25, 2020
Messages
155
WD40, stands for water displacement, so; while 99% of the recommendatiosn for WD40 are poor ideas This case you have the perfect product for the task.
 

deermanok

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In the past I've used lithium grease on breech plug threads if I didn't have anything else on hand.
 

MSalyards

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Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Messages
521
On a CVA QRBP you need no tape or anti sieze. Give it a very light coat of synthetic oil or grease. RiG would probably work well for this. Just wipe off the excess so its not messy.

Windex and isopropyl makes a handy swabbing solution. It wont freeze, evaporates fast and easy to make up some patches ahead of time. For cleaning anything but BH209 just use Dawn dish soap and water. Citrus cleaners work too. Pick one.

WD40 or Brake Clean will dissipate water after using a water based cleaner. ISO-HEET will also and its cheap/safe. Virtually non toxic compared to other products. ISO based fuel line deicers have no added water like drug store ISO usually has.

Use good synthetic oils for stuff like internal trigger/hammer assemblies. Any of them that wont gum up and only leaves a light film of oil. Those areas on most break actions are far harder to inspect and thoroughly clean.

RiG is a great long term storage product but it can be a bit messy. WD40 Long Term Corrosion Inhibitor is really good stuff too. Its just stupid expensive. In case you didnt know, both Ballistol and Montana X-treme Bore Condition are mostly light medical grade mineral oil. You can buy a gallon of that mineral oil on Amazon cheap.
I never tried not lubing the breech plug on my CVA.. I just always figured you were supposed to.
 

deermanok

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I never tried not lubing the breech plug on my CVA.. I just always figured you were supposed to.
A friend of mine only ever used borebutter for a lube on his TC Black Diamond. Finally the breech plug seized up and he never did get it out.
 

jlynch75

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Joined
Dec 2, 2018
Messages
169
I've been using pink teflon on my Whites breech plug for years. I clean barrel first with Awesome Orange (takes out all powder and grease), then pour down barrel boiling water from tea pot and then WD-40 with a patch. 1 clean patch, then a light coat of Break Free CLP. My barrels look great and I've never had a stuck breech plug. I only shoot with 777/fff.
 

GM54-120

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WD40, stands for water displacement, so; while 99% of the recommendatiosn for WD40 are poor ideas This case you have the perfect product for the task.
Except for their Long Term Corrosion Inhibitor is a whole other animal. Not even remotely similar to old WD40. When numerous other products were tested under the same conditions The WD Specialist did great.
 

Gabpan

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Joined
Jun 17, 2020
Messages
109
I tried to make sense of the hoppe's number 9 for black powder MSDS. I assume it's done 9 different chemicals. From what I could decipher some of them are naphtha, alcohol, kerosene which is refined diesel fuel, I think butane. And some weird chemical for the smell.

And though I determined that the formula could probably be recreated I determined is not worth it. Who wants gallons of flammable liquids in their garage just a mix-up 12 oz of gun bore cleaner.

One of the homemade recipes was lamp oil and transmission fluid. This guy was doing a comparison between the lamp oil mixture and hoppe's number 9 for black powder. So I burned a little powder on a plate put both solutions on eitherside and started wiping. the results were clear the homemade mixture didn't do nearly a good job matter of fact it was pretty pathetic. Hoppe's number 9 for black powder however wiped it right away.
 

rugerbh103

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Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
279
My wife mixes blue Dawn and vinegar to clean around the house, works fine in my stainless guns shooting T7.

I bought a large tin of white lithium grease from the auto parts section. Seems to work fine and I imagine it's a lifetime supply.

Old cotton clothes always get cut into patches.
 

Renegadehunter

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Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
148
Things that can help keep muzzleloading a bit cheaper.
-Buy tight weave 100% cotton or linen and make your own shooting patches and cleaning patches. Buy small quantities while finding your rifle's preferred patch thickness. Once found, cut the other stuff you bought into cleaning patches. You can save old worn out jeans, shirts, etc. and make cleaning patches too. Scoring a nice old linen table cloth at a yard sale would give you a lot of patch material.
-I don't cast my own projectiles, but it would save money in the long run.
-There are more lubes that are cheap, easy to make, and go a long ways than Carter had pills. Take your pick. Spit or plain old water for target shooting. Olive oil, render down animal fat, etc., mixed with bees wax from a local bee keeper for a hunting lube. I rarely shoot a conical and when I do I buy already lubed ones, but those can easily be lubed up yourself too after casting them.
-I feel an adjustable powder measure has to be purchased, if you don't already own a scale, both for safety and convenience while finding your rifle's preferred charge. Find the lowest charge that gives what you consider acceptable groups for target fun. Find an ethical charge for hunting. You could make your own powder measures after that for fun and/or looks, I like antler. Drill or burn them out with a hot nail (very slow but can be done).
-I bought a tube of TC anti-seize about 6-7 years ago for the nipple threads. It is a very small tube and is still 1/4 full or so. It takes very little to work. I barely snug the nipple when putting it back in. While I don't own an inline, I can see where a breech plug would consume much more of it. I like the Teflon tape idea.
-Cleaning I just use water. I've tried other cleaning solutions like TC #13, Birchwood-Casey #77, Hoppes BP solvent, they just don't work as fast as bucket of soapy water method. Sticking the barrel into a bucket and syphoning water in/out of the bore is much faster than wet patch / dry patch with a solvent. I also like how well syphoning water through the flame channel cleans it. Works great and no issues as long as you get everything dry when done. A patch lightly damp with water works fine for swabbing between shots and when target shooting I don't even bother with a second drying patch. Zero issues, just don't use too wet of a patch. Dollar store window cleaner is darn cheap and works fine too if it makes you feel better to have something that evaporates.
I've never tried a MAP solution (Murphys-Alcohol-Hydrogen Peroxide) but worry about something I once read. Hydrogen Peroxide supposedly can go where water won't...like into the threads of your breach plug. Not good for a traditional rifle that it never gets removed from. No idea if true, I'd love to see the breach plug pulled out of a rifle that was cleaned for years with water and one that was cleaned with MAP for years and compare. Not starting an argument and won't respond to one. Just a concern I have that everybody's going to have to live with lol.
-I do like to use denatured alcohol for both a water displacer and stripping the rust preventative back out of the bore. Been using the same half gallon for 4-5 years, still about a 1/4 of it left. Keep it in the original metal can and in a dark cabinet. Protecting the bore with animal fat has worked for many moons, a good coating to keep oxygen from getting to the metal will prevent rust. I think the folks that have problems simply don't get their bore as dry as they think before applying it. This method would save rust preventative cost and alcohol cost, although I would still want to make sure the flame channel was dry in some manner.
-If swabbing between shots, sometimes you end up pushing crud down and blocking the flame channel resulting in just the cap going off but not the main charge. Many just pop a cap after swabbing to clear it. This costs two caps per shot. Caps are cheap, but if you want to be more frugal you can turn your jag down a bit. Chuck it into a cordless drill and spin it on a flat file. Go slowly and check fit often on a fouled bore. Try to taper it a bit, smaller in the front. You're looking for a fit that will allow the patch/jag to go down the bore smoothly and then have the patch bunch up and pull the fouling OUT of the bore. I'm really not this frugal, but this is a cheap ideas thread, and turning the jag down in this instance will cut your cap consumption in half. As a swab between every shot guy I simply just prefer how well turning the jag down works and I do consume half the caps.
-Powder. If using real black, split the cost with some other shooters and do a large quantity buy. The more folks the cheaper it is for hazmat and shipping fees. Of course know your state's laws.
 

Gabpan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2020
Messages
109
I think I'm going to go ahead and try this. I looked up the specs on the pink tape which they have at home Depot for about 3 bucks. The specs say that it is safe to about 500 degrees Fahrenheit. typical black powder and black substance powder substitutes burn at 700 to 750 degrees Fahrenheit.
For the purpose though it looks like it works. I mean if you're only going to take about 10 shots maybe 20 would be pushing it.

I got a chance to take a look at a photo of somebody that ran about 10 shots for the barrel and it looked good the taped it don't look disintegrated at all.
For those interested after driving there even though the app showed 180 in stock they did not carry it.
After asking the less than interested employee she said "oh we got tape here" then said "oh you want that one we ain't got it". "Why?" I asked. "Because it do that all the time" she replied.
So if you have a bit of a drive or don't like wasting your time while a pandemic is going on. Maybe call ahead.
I think that the site-to-store shipping option may be available. But be aware that I saw a something on the shelf for the exact same price that was in the place of the pink tape but was not the pink tape at all.
What I'm trying to get at is home depot's website may have the description entirely wrong for the SKU. Meaning that even if you have it ordered and shipped to the store you'll get the same stuff that's in the store shelf that's the wrong stuff if that makes sense.

Things that can help keep muzzleloading a bit cheaper.
-Buy tight weave 100% cotton or linen and make your own shooting patches and cleaning patches. Buy small quantities while finding your rifle's preferred patch thickness. Once found, cut the other stuff you bought into cleaning patches. You can save old worn out jeans, shirts, etc. and make cleaning patches too. Scoring a nice old linen table cloth at a yard sale would give you a lot of patch material.
-I don't cast my own projectiles, but it would save money in the long run.
-There are more lubes that are cheap, easy to make, and go a long ways than Carter had pills. Take your pick. Spit or plain old water for target shooting. Olive oil, render down animal fat, etc., mixed with bees wax from a local bee keeper for a hunting lube. I rarely shoot a conical and when I do I buy already lubed ones, but those can easily be lubed up yourself too after casting them.
-I feel an adjustable powder measure has to be purchased, if you don't already own a scale, both for safety and convenience while finding your rifle's preferred charge. Find the lowest charge that gives what you consider acceptable groups for target fun. Find an ethical charge for hunting. You could make your own powder measures after that for fun and/or looks, I like antler. Drill or burn them out with a hot nail (very slow but can be done).
-I bought a tube of TC anti-seize about 6-7 years ago for the nipple threads. It is a very small tube and is still 1/4 full or so. It takes very little to work. I barely snug the nipple when putting it back in. While I don't own an inline, I can see where a breech plug would consume much more of it. I like the Teflon tape idea.
-Cleaning I just use water. I've tried other cleaning solutions like TC #13, Birchwood-Casey #77, Hoppes BP solvent, they just don't work as fast as bucket of soapy water method. Sticking the barrel into a bucket and syphoning water in/out of the bore is much faster than wet patch / dry patch with a solvent. I also like how well syphoning water through the flame channel cleans it. Works great and no issues as long as you get everything dry when done. A patch lightly damp with water works fine for swabbing between shots and when target shooting I don't even bother with a second drying patch. Zero issues, just don't use too wet of a patch. Dollar store window cleaner is darn cheap and works fine too if it makes you feel better to have something that evaporates.
I've never tried a MAP solution (Murphys-Alcohol-Hydrogen Peroxide) but worry about something I once read. Hydrogen Peroxide supposedly can go where water won't...like into the threads of your breach plug. Not good for a traditional rifle that it never gets removed from. No idea if true, I'd love to see the breach plug pulled out of a rifle that was cleaned for years with water and one that was cleaned with MAP for years and compare. Not starting an argument and won't respond to one. Just a concern I have that everybody's going to have to live with lol.
-I do like to use denatured alcohol for both a water displacer and stripping the rust preventative back out of the bore. Been using the same half gallon for 4-5 years, still about a 1/4 of it left. Keep it in the original metal can and in a dark cabinet. Protecting the bore with animal fat has worked for many moons, a good coating to keep oxygen from getting to the metal will prevent rust. I think the folks that have problems simply don't get their bore as dry as they think before applying it. This method would save rust preventative cost and alcohol cost, although I would still want to make sure the flame channel was dry in some manner.
-If swabbing between shots, sometimes you end up pushing crud down and blocking the flame channel resulting in just the cap going off but not the main charge. Many just pop a cap after swabbing to clear it. This costs two caps per shot. Caps are cheap, but if you want to be more frugal you can turn your jag down a bit. Chuck it into a cordless drill and spin it on a flat file. Go slowly and check fit often on a fouled bore. Try to taper it a bit, smaller in the front. You're looking for a fit that will allow the patch/jag to go down the bore smoothly and then have the patch bunch up and pull the fouling OUT of the bore. I'm really not this frugal, but this is a cheap ideas thread, and turning the jag down in this instance will cut your cap consumption in half. As a swab between every shot guy I simply just prefer how well turning the jag down works and I do consume half the caps.
-Powder. If using real black, split the cost with some other shooters and do a large quantity buy. The more folks the cheaper it is for hazmat and shipping fees. Of course know your state's laws.
Excellent post with a ton of information. Thank you. And that bit of information about hydrogen peroxide was fascinating.
Yes I definitely do not want any moisture creeping into that metal. I know what happens to moisture and rocks when we set them on top fire and heat the rocks up. It can be catastrophic failure. Not to mention rust. Rust also affecting accuracy and then integrity of the barrel.

I agree with the hoppes works but slow. I got some on my arm and let it dry and got a nice oily coat. which is pretty awesome it's probably got some type of stripper and oil mixed in together. Doesn't smell as strong as original hop. Too bad, I love the smell of hop.

Once I get this thing clean and get the gunk out of the "new" barrel. I think I'm going with Windex and alcohol or that simple orange Dollar store spray with alcohol for in between wiping.

For the major disassembly clean apart probably just hot soapy water. Dry with rags then a hair dryer. Then finish with mineral oil to protect for now until I find something better.
 
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