The Good, the bad and the UGLY

Discussion in 'Inline Muzzleloading' started by ENCORE50A, Jul 14, 2019.

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  1. Jul 14, 2019 #1

    ENCORE50A

    ENCORE50A

    ENCORE50A

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    All too often we hear the good and some bad, not always do we hear the ugly. You know, those things that really happen and that most won’t talk about? Well this is one of those stories where something went wrong, something I most likely did and I don’t mind keeping things real. Someone down the road may learn from this.

    Saturday the weather prompted me to head to the club and shoot some long range targets. The plan was to shoot the 300gr Fury star tip2’s that I had sized to load at 19# with BH209 and develop a drop chart. I’d shot them at home over the chronograph to verify the velocity and then entered the velocity and the published BC into JBM for approximate drops.

    Again I ended up the only person on the range, so up went the targets at 2,3,4,5 and even a 600yd target (why not?). Things went really well and for an old rusty fella, I was still keeping them moa or less out to 400yds. The mirage wasn’t bad, so it made shooting nice.

    It was time to send five rounds at 500 to determine how close the estimate from JBM was. The first round impacted low right, so I sent a second and it was VERY close to the first. DUNAMIS will shoot and the 300gr Fury ST2’s were shooting great at long range. I made my vertical adjustment, and a slight wind adjustment and fired the third round. Height was about as perfect as one could ask for and at 500yds, one can’t complain about a 2”+ right. So now it’s time to send two more and find out how well I can do, then on to 600yds for fun.

    IMG_1717.JPG


    I don’t know if I varied from my procedure or exactly what happened, but this is where things turned UGLY. Really ugly. I’m assuming that like I always do, I swabbed the bore with a 50/50 mix of alcohol and Hoppes, then ran two dry patches. I pulled out a powder tube and poured it down through the funnel, then placed my veggie wad in the funnel and ran that down into the barrel. Picked up one of the bullets, dropped it into the funnel and started to push the bullet down and seat it on the propellant. The bullet started and was pushing down the barrel with the same force as all previous bullets. However this time I felt a hard stop. Experience told me a couple things, first my hand on the ramrod wasn’t low enough and second, my witness mark was way above the funnel and not even close to where it should have been. Hummmm??? So in a moment of unthinking, I put the “T” handle over the end of the ramrod and pushed harder to seat that bullet. It flat out would not move. Not one single bit of movement of that bullet down the barrel.

    Knowing the only thing to do was to remove the breech plug, dump the propellant and push the bullet out the muzzle. Yup, a big clean up job was ahead of me. So I went through that process and the bullet would not move by pushing. I hit the end of the “T” handle and the bullet would not move. I knew that ended my day’s shooting and I’d have to take it home to remove the stuck bullet. Loaded everything up, drove down and remove my targets and headed home.

    Once home I cleaned up most of the propellant mess, then took a 3/8” aluminum rod and tried to dislodge the bullet. It would not move. I communicated with Jeff, who told me to get a 7/16’. I ran all over tarnation before finding that. More tapping to hard and the bullet would not move. I had the rod marked and that bullet would not move. Stuck at the end of the forearm. Time for plan B.

    Plan B was a discussion with Jeff this morning, who is creating what should be the fix to the issue and a hard lesson learned for me. The intent is to use hydraulics and push the bullet out with a modified breech plug with a grease zerk. It is known that this system has worked for badly stuck bullets and we’re hoping it’s going to fix this issue, or my mistake. And yes, I’ll have a messy cleanup, but sometimes ugly requires nasty fixes.

    So……… everything isn’t all rosy. I don’t mind discussing issues, rather created by myself or something else. Jeff is sending me the modified breech plug and hopefully I’ll quickly get that bullet removed and possibly find out what went wrong or, what I may have done wrong. I’ll report back on the progress. Hopefully this may prevent someone in the future from having the same issue, or making the same mistake, or using the same fix. It’s always a learning experience of some kind or another, some good, some bad, some ugly.

    Thanks to Bestill (Jeff) for all his help and guidance.
     
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  2. Jul 14, 2019 #2

    bestill

    bestill

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    Great real world post and soon be shooting again.
     
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  3. Jul 14, 2019 #3

    SuperKirby

    SuperKirby

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    I'm rather curious about what would cause your bullet to get stuck that solidly. It's one thing if you were having to beat on it the whole way down and finally it just got stuck. But for it to be going fine and then just stop seems rather odd. I think I remember you have one of those scopes that hooks to your phone. Have you tried sending that down from both ends to see what causing the problem?
     
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  4. Jul 14, 2019 #4

    ENCORE50A

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    I have no clue why its stuck. In discussing this with Jeff, it could be that I actually forgot to swab before loading that round. Why it stuck itself so tightly I have no clue, but after banging on it trying to push it out, its understandable now. I've read where this has happened to others who are shooting land riding bullets. I've read where some just force the bullet down on the propellant, others immediately remove the plug and push it out. I know one person made a tool for getting a stuck bullet out, but not deep, or in the middle of the barrel. I guess that's why in the worst cases, pumping them out with hydraulic pressure and grease is performed. If I understand it correctly, it happens more frequently when shooting smokeless, yet I was using BH.
    Never a thought crossed my mind about using the endoscope, but that's a great idea.
     
  5. Jul 14, 2019 #5

    03mossy

    03mossy

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    Very curious to find out what caused it to stick that bad. Good luck!
     
  6. Jul 14, 2019 #6

    ENCORE50A

    ENCORE50A

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    I'm only going to...….. assume.... as I don't have near the experience that others have. I guess it could have been because I didn't swab, or some type of crud ring with heavy charges built up, or it very well could be the bullet. IIRC the Fury are pretty soft bullets and when I shot them in the UF and now the custom, they only needed to be ran through the sizer once and would maintain loading forces. Could have been a combination of everything. I have no clue. I had an excellent conversation with Jeff and explained everything in detail and, I don't believe he understands totally what happened. A single thing, a combination?

    This I will say that I do know...……… if when loading in the future a bullet stops or starts getting really tight, I'll stop and take it apart at home and push it out. Worse case, I'll have the tool Jeff made me.
     
  7. Jul 14, 2019 #7

    ENCORE50A

    ENCORE50A

    ENCORE50A

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    Had a difficult time getting the endoscope to work, then still had to take a screen shot to get the photo.

    Other than a lot of reflection and a couple pieces of propellant I can't push out, it appears the base may have separated ??? It may appear that one side of the bullet has more jacket ???

    stuck at breech end.JPG
     
  8. Jul 14, 2019 #8

    45-70

    45-70

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    have you looked at other end
     
  9. Jul 14, 2019 #9

    ENCORE50A

    ENCORE50A

    ENCORE50A

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    Sure did Bob and about all it shows is where I put heavy pressure on the bullet at first, then trying to tap it down. Not a very good photo. I was having trouble with the endoscope and for some reason it wouldn't take a photo by itself, so I snipped the screen for this photo.
    Attempting to push it and tap it down, just swelled the bullet into the groves more.
    From the muzzle, its 14.25" down the bore. Shows the residue of the propellant I can't get out without a swab through.
    The breech plug Jeff is sending with the grease fitting will push it out with pressure.

    Maybe once I get it out, I'll know more and I'll be able to show Jeff.
    I'll have a good cleanup job coming up, but at least the barrel will be lubricated LOL.
    I removed my scope and removed the trigger to make sure that the trigger was completely was clean.

    What I do know is, if in the future a bullet is sliding down properly then hits a stop, I'm NOT pushing any harder. I'll just pull the breech plug, dump the propellant and push it out the muzzle.




    stuck at barrel end.JPG
     
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  10. Jul 15, 2019 #10

    45-70

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    Joe Hill did same once and that is how he eventually got it out. The more he pounded the tighter it got. think maybe the copper on built tried to roll up . Just a thought
     
  11. Jul 15, 2019 #11

    michiganmuzzy

    michiganmuzzy

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    Not sure about the relation of the top pic to the bottom pic, but it kind of looks like the bullet is getting over on a bit of an angle there. Maybe made worse by forcing it?
     
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  12. Jul 15, 2019 #12

    ENCORE50A

    ENCORE50A

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    Yup, they are not real hard bullets.
     
  13. Jul 15, 2019 #13

    SuperKirby

    SuperKirby

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    Man that's just odd. I know it happens and i've even had bullets that were real hard to load but never had one get stuck. If I understand it right, you're using a standard breech plug but where the primer goes there's a grease zerk? do you then just use a standard grease by to push it out? I wouldn't have thought you could get enough pressure behind it using one. Or is there a special gun you're using? If it's not too messy take pictures of the removal process I'm curious about this.
     
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  14. Jul 15, 2019 #14

    ENCORE50A

    ENCORE50A

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    Yes that's it. Jeff took a breech plug he had laying around and drilled and tapped it for the grease fitting. Here's what I now know about grease and hydraulics, they use a common grease gun to adjust tracks on a dozer or excavator. Same principle as using a small hydraulic jack to lift a 3,000# auto/truck.
    I wish I could get my camera video settings lower, as it takes sooooo much time to load one to youtube. I might just set up the camera and video the process. Of course I'll not do that in the house and not my reloading area. My plan at the moment is to use a plastic bag over the muzzle when pumping just in case that gives way. Grease would fly all over the place. This is a learning process that hopefully if others have this problem will help them.
     
  15. Jul 15, 2019 #15

    SuperKirby

    SuperKirby

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    Interesting. I hope you're able to video it. I'd like to see the process.

    When do you get the plug?
     
  16. Jul 15, 2019 #16

    ENCORE50A

    ENCORE50A

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    I believe Jeff is mailing it today.
     
  17. Jul 15, 2019 #17

    dbowling

    dbowling

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    Ive got a buddy who is a airgun smith and he always had guys sending him air rifles with pellets stuck in the bore, many years ago he made a device that used a grease gun to push pellets out of the barrels.
     
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  18. Jul 16, 2019 #18

    Dougs136Schwartz

    Dougs136Schwartz

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    Sometimes trying to save on the cost of bullets will actually cost a person more time and money . Just speaking from experience .

    Sorry for all your trouble George . I’m sure you’ll get it lined out .
     
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  19. Jul 16, 2019 #19

    Panhandle

    Panhandle

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    Just wondering...should a wad be put in the barrel prior to hitting it with the pressured grease to help seal the grooves?
     
  20. Jul 16, 2019 #20

    dbowling

    dbowling

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    Id say if its stuck that hard its sealed pretty good.
     
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