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Under "smokeless powder" on page 13....are you sure it was Marlin and not Savage??
 
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What is shown is what Doc has on his website, we just grabbed the book in the PDF form and copied it to make it availabe if wanted. Nothing was changed from original printing.

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Under "smokeless powder" on page 13....are you sure it was Marlin and not Savage??

Dont know about Marlin but Doc is clearly wrong about a few things regarding powders, sabots and primers used in SMLs. HPH series sabots were out before BH209 came out. 209s handle the pressures just fine in a good plug. NULA M209s and SMI smokeless rifles were both out before BH209. The Savage MLII was out before BH209. And there is at least 1 powder that measures fine with a Lee Dipper. Doc himself even tested that powder in his Thunderbolt so that part is pure "sales pitch".

458 rifle bullets were also around and numerous other bullets such as Barnes perform fine with the additional velocity. This all reminds me of a Cutco salesman trying to tell me how his stamped knives are better than my forged Henckels.

Even then, the sabots and bullets to take advantage of the increased velocities available from smokeless have not been developed, nor has the priming system that will safely withstand the higher pressures, despite claims to the contrary.Common percussion nipples, even with musket caps, are not the answer, unless you like rifles that self cock and blow your hat off. #209 shotgun primers are not made to withstand the higher pressures generated by modern full rifle sized loads, either. Finally, there are no bulk loading smokeless powders available at present. All currently available smokeless powders demand a calibrated measure for accuracy and safety.In my opinion, at least for the present, the complete package of technology to render the practice safe and effective isn’t yet available. Blackhorn 209 comes close, but I’m going to wait until the whole package arrives, ie-primer, bullets, powder, and safe management system. When it does, maybe I’ll hunt with smokeless. I recommend you do the same

He even hunted with that powder in 2004 in a 45cal with a 350gr 40 sabot load. So it appears he already DID hunt with smokeless and liked it too.
http://whitemuzzleloading.com/article.php?id=38&title=South+Africa+2004
I liked the smokeless because I never had to clean the rifle and the saboted bullet loaded easily without grimy powder residues, but remain tongue-in-cheek about its general use for the average hunter.
 
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When he was building and sponsoring a shooting team at Friendship they were at the top of their game every year they were there.

Actually Knight beat them for 5 or 6 years straight until White came out with Varminter. A rifle not even legal to use for deer in many states. Knight 45s were beating the White 45s and 40s until then.

And what have you done dead head
How does what ive done change the facts of what i posted?....Simply put it does not. I love reading some fiction too at times. He did in fact use smokeless for hunting and liked it by his own admission. His later writing implied he had not and would not. He implies sabots that can handle the pressures and speed did not exist when BH209 was around. That is simply false. Both Harvester and MMP had/have sabots capable of over 2400fps no problem. My NULA model 20 was built in about 2006. Its a 209 based smokeless rifle. Ive shot MANY sabot loads exceeding 30kpsi without a single failure. Lots of people have.

I have owned 3 SMLs. I still own 2 and a 275gr bullet at 2400fps is a cake walk. My sig pic is about me quitting smoking cigarettes. It has nothing to do with the Grateful Dead or smokeless muzzle loading. I think im well versed enough about this topic to have formed a good opinion on SMLs based on facts.

Thanks for asking though. :D
 
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The truth is the members of the website are the ones that make the site work with their input not the so-called host.

Then you might want to notice ive been a member too for over 11 years with over 11k posts. Your assumption ive done very little is nothing more than that. And lets get something straight here, im the one that asked the site admin for a DWB section. I like White Rifles but lets be real too. We can call 💩 when we see it. Im not here to sell anything and ive never been on any forum trying to help any brand as a shill for their products or services.

And thank you for the PDF. I saved it to my collection. Like most of Doc's writings, its entertaining.
 
I haven't read the whole PDF but there is certainly a deviation of who came out with a smokeless muzzleloader. In his book that was published in 2001 it shows that it was Savage, in the PDF it says Marlin. I for one think Doc White has done a lot for the Muzzleloading community but there does seem to be some conflicting information.
 

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I haven't read the whole PDF but there is certainly a deviation of who came out with a smokeless muzzleloader. In his book that was published in 2001 it shows that it was Savage, in the PDF it says Marlin. I for one think Doc White has done a lot for the Muzzleloading community but there does seem to be some conflicting information.
The conflicting information is between the printed version and the one seen on his website (that seems to be an issue with many of these books and websites) someone was playing with the information for whatever the reason? I would go with what was originally written - the book.
 
Hope you hang around Buck. I have found that on these forums it is easy to offend and be offended. I'm sure you have a wealth of experience and knowledge you could enrich us with.
 
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Geeeesh! I just asked a simple question, as I was pretty sure it was Savage and not Marlin who started the smokeless gig. Wasn't intending to start a sh..-show. My apologies for asking.
 
Geeeesh! I just asked a simple question, as I was pretty sure it was Savage and not Marlin who started the smokeless gig. Wasn't intending to start a sh..-show. My apologies for asking.
This is a diry white boy space. Let the dwb mentality loose for at least a little, dont be like Twitter :) :) A good sh.. show can be entertaining. That is why i sometimes miss the devil on forums :)
 

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