This mule has been whipped dang near to death.....

[Firewater Forge]

But I want your experience using 3f in place of 2f. Is there any reduction in volume given the different granulations?

 

[edmehlig]

I would reduce by 10 gr

 

[deermanok]

I've been shooting 3f for the last few years. I don't know how true or untrue it is but from what I've read, one could use 10 to 15 % less 3f to equal the energy of a given load of 2f powder

 

[Bad Karma]

If you have access to a chronograph you could shoot for the velocities you saw with 2f.

 

[Matthew323]

What edmehlig, deermanok, & Bad Karma all have said.

In addition, I would let your 5-shot groups at whatever maximum distance you plan to shoot at dictate the powder charge best suited for fffg black powder.

In all three of my old longrifles, the best accuracy came with powder charges ranging from 70 grains to 75 grains of fffg black powder.

This was with .45 caliber, .50 caliber, & .62 caliber barrels; all three with 1:48" rates of twist.

With pure lead balls weighing.....

0.445" diameter × 132.1 grains
0.495" diameter × 181.8 grains
0.615" diameter × 348.7 grains

What I now find interesting/amazing all these years later, is that the Sweet Spot as regards to accuracy for three widely different ball weights, in three different calibers, came within 5 grains of one another.

Back as a teenager, and then a young man, I never concerned myself with the minutia of just exactly what gave me such consistent accuracy off of the bench with all three rifles.

Which were all capable of near minute of angle accuracy (silver dollar size groups)(1.043" to 1.5" in diameter) with 5-shot groups out to 100 yards on a day-to-day basis.

Patch material, which I never recall measuring (I probably did measure, but I just don't remember)(I was a machinist apprentice then, so I had a micrometer) was thick enough to allow for an unlimited number of consecutive shots to be fired without wiping the bore.

Knowing what I know now, my best guess would be that the bulk, cotton, blue denim material that I purchased at a local independent fabric store, measured somewhere in the neighborhood of 0.022" to 0.024" thick.

Spit was the only lubricant I ever used when shooting for fun at the range.

I just put one end of the long, pre-cut strips of denim material in my mouth,

got the material nice & wet,

placed the fabric strip over the muzzle,

placed a ball with the sprue facing forwards over the patch material,

pushed the ball as far into the bore as I could using firm thumb pressure,

used a short starter of my own design to seat the ball just below the crown,

sliced off the excess patch material with a razor sharp patch knife,

used the long arm of the short starter to seat the ball approximately 5" into the bore,

and, utilizing the hickory ramrod on the rifle,

with my hand choked up on the ramrod,

I then proceeded to push the patched ball down on top of the powder charge,

using short, 6" to 8" long strokes of the ramrod.

Easy Peasy, Lemon Squeezy!

Once the ball was 5"-6" into the bore, there was only smooth resistance the rest of the way down the 40" to 42" long barrels.

Choking up on the 3/8" diameter hickory ramrods that all three rifles were equipped with, just seemed like the intelligent thing to do.

Only having your hand 6" to 8" in front of the muzzle means that you cannot ever exert enough sidewards pressure on the ramrod to come close to breaking it.

It's only when a shooter tries to hold the ramrod 12" to 18" in front of the muzzle when attempting to seat a patched ball, especially a tight fitting one, that they end up breaking a wood ramrod by bowing it sideways past its breaking point.

 

[Bushfire]

I use 2f in my 50s and 54. On my recent buffalo hunt all we could source was 3F.
I reduced my load from 120gr 2f to 110gr 3f and my 60 yard group went from 1" to 3 1/2". Granted I didn't play too much around with loads but it was enough to convince me to stick with 2f for 50cal and up.

 

[Matthew323]

I use 2f in my 50s and 54. On my recent buffalo hunt all we could source was 3F.
I reduced my load from 120gr 2f to 110gr 3f and my 60 yard group went from 1" to 3 1/2". Granted I didn't play too much around with loads but it was enough to convince me to stick with 2f for 50cal and up.

Bushfire,

A lack of experimentation is the only thing preventing you from possibly obtaining the same accuracy with fffg versus ffg black powder in your particular rifle.

Seldom do we encounter on any muzzleloading forum a shooter that has truly exhausted every possible combination of propellant brand, propellant granulation, type of patch material, patch thickness, ball diameter, or lead hardness in their quest for the best accuracy in a particular rifle/smoothbore.

Most people simply try one, or two combinations, throw up their hands in exasperation, and make blanket statements such as, "ffg/fffg won't work in my gun, only fffg/ffg will!"

Being as you are in Australia, you probably have far fewer choices with which to experiment with, than those of us here in the United States do.

 

[eekjellander]

My accuracy load with my new to me 54 cal Renegade (the one with a scope)2x7 Leupold to 200 yd ranged so far is
90 grains 3F under my cast Lyman Plains with less elevation than 2F . Bullet hits where the bottom post on that duplex points ,@ 200 yds/crosshair does it @ 100 yds and still trying Friday again for improvement ! /Ed

 

[Idaholewis]

I use 2f in my 50s and 54. On my recent buffalo hunt all we could source was 3F.
I reduced my load from 120gr 2f to 110gr 3f and my 60 yard group went from 1" to 3 1/2". Granted I didn't play too much around with loads but it was enough to convince me to stick with 2f for 50cal and up.

2F has been the CLEAR Winner for me as well in ALL of my Rifles, even my TC Patriot Pistol. I use to shoot Swiss 3F back when i first started Muzzleloading, But After i tried Swiss 2F i never looked back at 3F again, I fouled my Bores with the last Pound of Swiss 3F i had, I will likely never use it again (As long as i can get Swiss 2F anyway)

 

[bandicoot]

I use 3-F in all my black powder guns except one. I have no guns smaller than 50 cal. I prefer GOEX because of the soft fouling. I use 1.5-F SWISS in the one that shoots the 570-grain round balls.

 

[jlynch75]

I have used both FFF & FF of T7 and use the same amount, I don't see any difference. I find it easier to measure the FFF.

 

[Idaholewis]

I use 3-F in all my black powder guns except one. I have no guns smaller than 50 cal. I prefer GOEX because of the soft fouling. I use 1.5-F SWISS in the one that shoots the 570-grain round balls.

I have Swiss 1.5 as well. It is good accurate Powder, But i had trouble with it Hang firing in my Fast Twist sidelocks, Due to it’s Courser granulation I found it REALLY important to TAP TAP TAP on the Wrist area of the Gun more than usual to get the Powder settled good under the Nipple, Ignition was much better, but stil not Reliable enough for me to fully trust it. I NEVER have this issue with Swiss 2F

 

[Matthew323]

Back when I shot flint longrifles, Goex fffg was all I used, both for the main powder charge, and to prime the lock's pan with.

If Swiss black powder is everything that I have read online that it is supposed to be, then I can see using a ffg granulation, instead of an fffg granulation. Everything I have read on Swiss black powder says that due to the higher levels of quality control during its manufacture, coupled with a better grade of charcoal, and far more consistency in the size of the granulations ; makes a particular granulation perform as if it were the next finer granulation.

 

[Renegadehunter]

I’d just let the rifle tell you. Start low like you would with a new rifle and work your way up 5 grains at a time shooting groups until you find what yields the best groups. Of course, be aware to not exceed max charge per manufacturer recommendation.
It doesn’t always come out like you’d think. My .54 shoots 80 grains of 2f really well (PRB), I too thought it would likely want a bit lower charge of 3f so I started at 65 grains and worked up. To my surprise I had to go clear to 80 grains with that as well to get groups I was happy with.