- Joined
- Oct 4, 2005
- Messages
- 4,905
- Reaction score
- 476
Same here. I do process my own and just recently started making Breakfast and summer sausage and snack sticks. Next summers project is a smoker.
Trigger time with the .450 Bushmaster
- Thread starter ENCORE50A
- Start date
Help Support Modern Muzzleloading Forum:
Same here. I do process my own and just recently started making Breakfast and summer sausage and snack sticks. Next summers project is a smoker.
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2016
- Messages
- 314
- Reaction score
- 191
Great post, thank you, and good luck! And by the way, I didn't mean to make it sound like I have never taken a poor shot...I have just been lucky.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2016
- Messages
- 314
- Reaction score
- 191
...and now I am jealous.
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2009
- Messages
- 7,529
- Reaction score
- 8,173
I agree that some may/do have issues that were related to Shot placement. Happens more often as guys get exited and just aim at the Deer and not a spot as stated. Muzzleloader hunting/shooting helped me get control of that. Patients and some discipline really helps with limiting those failures. Then again deer a living moving target and crap can happen just when the trigger is pulled.
So far I have only taken one deer with my .450 and that was last Fall. The FTX definitely did its job placed right though both lungs, was quite careful with my shot placement. What I did not expect was the exit wound and the Spray I got. Yes blood from the lungs can and will spray out but in my years of hunting never saw anything like this. It looked like the bullet had over expanded and may have been starting to come apart, I don't think it did but think it was close. I wish I had a pic of what I am talking about but I don't usually carry a camera, and definitely not my phone with me in the field. This is just my opinion since I had nothing recovered (Bullet or Fragments) to look at. I had issues with the bullet from a MZ a long time ago but it was just the opposite and it was way back when I shot pellets. I know now that the 2 pellet loads was not enough velocity to get the bullet to work properly. I personally would just like to have something a little better. BUT If someone came to me asking what Factory load to shoot in a 450BM my first recommendation is the Hornady Custom 250Gn FTX or the Black. I got a box and it shoots right with my Hand loads.
I have taken 4 deer with the Lehigh CF or Bloodline. It took me a LONG time to get my mind wrapped around how it worked even with Sabotloader showing us all the pics. First deer I got I was totally amazed, and sold on them. My experience with them is why I contacted them about it. Don't know the outcome of their testing with it but so far not listed for sale.
Another Bullet I have been watching here is the Fury. I find it an interesting bullet design. I contacted them this past weekend (Sunday) to ask about a bullet for the .450BM. He actually responded later Sunday, that shocked me! He does make them for the .450BM but they are not the same bullet that is used in the ML. Just said he had to make them harder but did not elaborate. He said it was a different process for making a cartridge rifle bullet then for an ML. I plan to get back with them next Month to see about getting some to try. The Bullet that he has that would fit in my magazine for sure is the Un-Tipped Star tip bullet. The Tipped version looked like it would be too long to fit my Mag for sure. A Remington style mag well or a single shot probably would not have that OAL issue. Its too late fore me to get any to try this year as I am headed out to Se Ohio this coming Saturday for a couple weeks. Its almost my turn to get in the woods!
The RA 450BM is making the trip but plan to start with my Knight KRB. Hope to get a repeat of last year with a Deer for each!
Good luck!
If I could ever put down the muzz, I'd try the FTX again. I've got about 500 of them to burn up if they don't work
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2016
- Messages
- 314
- Reaction score
- 191
Here is a pic of that blood vessel coming out of the exit wound, that I located in one of the photos I took. It's the white blood covered cord protruding from the wound, and little piece of leaf debris is below it. This is pre organ removal. Alas, I took no pictures of the heart (stupid).
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2005
- Messages
- 4,905
- Reaction score
- 476
Good luck!
If I could ever put down the muzz, I'd try the FTX again. I've got about 500 of them to burn up if they don't work
Thanks, hope they start moving for you too. Weather is looking crappy for Sunday in Ohio and looks like I will be driving into it. Oh well that Winter driving for ya! Usually I get into that on my way back.
My freezer is empty but I just need some time in the woods to get some Mind Medicine!
The 450 is loaded as usual with the FTX for this season. I can't bring myself to Not hunt with an ML for at least one deer. Love my MLs too much for that.
On a Side note a local shop recently got an RA ranch rifle in 350 Legend. Not sure why but while I find the cartridge interesting, it just has not "Tripped my Trigger" enough to get one, at least not like the 450BM did. I had no interest in that short of a barrel for the 450 but it is probably fine for the 350L. I do think it could be a great little deer round for my Nephews wife since she is a petite little gal.
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2009
- Messages
- 7,529
- Reaction score
- 8,173
Thanks, hope they start moving for you too. Weather is looking crappy for Sunday in Ohio and looks like I will be driving into it. Oh well that Winter driving for ya! Usually I get into that on my way back.
My freezer is empty but I just need some time in the woods to get some Mind Medicine!
The 450 is loaded as usual with the FTX for this season. I can't bring myself to Not hunt with an ML for at least one deer. Love my MLs too much for that.
On a Side note a local shop recently got an RA ranch rifle in 350 Legend. Not sure why but while I find the cartridge interesting, it just has not "Tripped my Trigger" enough to get one, at least not like the 450BM did. I had no interest in that short of a barrel for the 450 but it is probably fine for the 350L. I do think it could be a great little deer round for my Nephews wife since she is a petite little gal.
The 350L isn't getting good reviews from some. Short range round either way. Just more hype and guys are drooling about it.
You do know you can load that 450 down? I wouldn't try the 200grs, at least with Lil'Gun. Just to much space left over. I think you remember the fiasco I went through with those.
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2005
- Messages
- 4,905
- Reaction score
- 476
Yup I remember that. I have 300gn Speer DC and 250gn Speer DC but I just think the 240 to 260gn is about right for this cartridge at least for my needs. Never got around to trying the 2 Speer.
Yes your right that would be an option for my Nephews wife. She could probably handle the 450 as is since she does shoot a 20ga but watching her shoot the 20ga, it I think it is about all she can seem to handle. She don't shoot a lot so that is part of her issue. For me I don't find the load we are using all that bad to shoot, quite pleasant for a good deer rifle. I fell in love with the caliber. I heard it compared to a 20 gauge with slugs but I think it is less. It is more pleasant than my .358 Win with a 225 Nosler partition. That little skinny barreled Ruger M77 Hits hard on both ends.
Yes your right that would be an option for my Nephews wife. She could probably handle the 450 as is since she does shoot a 20ga but watching her shoot the 20ga, it I think it is about all she can seem to handle. She don't shoot a lot so that is part of her issue. For me I don't find the load we are using all that bad to shoot, quite pleasant for a good deer rifle. I fell in love with the caliber. I heard it compared to a 20 gauge with slugs but I think it is less. It is more pleasant than my .358 Win with a 225 Nosler partition. That little skinny barreled Ruger M77 Hits hard on both ends.
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2009
- Messages
- 7,529
- Reaction score
- 8,173
Yup I remember that. I have 300gn Speer DC and 250gn Speer DC but I just think the 240 to 260gn is about right for this cartridge at least for my needs. Never got around to trying the 2 Speer.
Yes your right that would be an option for my Nephews wife. She could probably handle the 450 as is since she does shoot a 20ga but watching her shoot the 20ga, it I think it is about all she can seem to handle. She don't shoot a lot so that is part of her issue. For me I don't find the load we are using all that bad to shoot, quite pleasant for a good deer rifle. I fell in love with the caliber. I heard it compared to a 20 gauge with slugs but I think it is less. It is more pleasant than my .358 Win with a 225 Nosler partition. That little skinny barreled Ruger M77 Hits hard on both ends.
Take the 450 and have a brake installed. It would tame it right down and a child could shoot it with no problem. And they do now with brakes. Maybe its just me, but I'd rather have to much gun than not enough. A good muzzle brake would work perfectly for her. At the same time, everyone would be using the same ammunition, 450 Bushmaster. Saves money reloading one type of ammunition rather than two different calibers.
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2008
- Messages
- 66
- Reaction score
- 35
I am noticing a trend here where a bunch of people are placing the blame on the shooter..."If the shooter would just place the shot right...etc" I have hunted with my Encore muzzleloader for 20 years now and have happily stayed with Barnes with absolute delight. I have harvested deer from 10 yards to 150 yards and have never had an ounce of problems. In fact I have never, ever recovered one of the Barnes rounds. Of the probably 30+ deer harvested I have only had three that did not drop in their tracks. A 170 9 pointer that I shot at 30 yards made it 30 yards and dropped within sight. A smaller buck that I shot at 10 yards made it about 60 yards and left a blood trail that Hellen Keller could have followed. The last was a doe was shot at 30 yards and it looked like I shot a can of red spray paint where she stood and all the way to where she layed about 50 yards away. Maybe I've gotten too used to that kind of performance. My setup is a TC Encore with 80.5g by weight of BH 209 and 285g Barnes Spitfire. I figure that I am approaching the same velocities as with my .450. Is expecting/hoping for similar results asking too much?
Bear creek ballistics . Check out the 285 grain jobs......
Just learned of them from buckdoehunter . They offer projectiles to loaded ammo . Looks GOOD to me !!!!
When.my a-bolt 300 win mag/45 raptor switch barrel rig is done those will be top of my list to feed that raptor . Gonna try them in my mz as well . I LOVE wet newspaper to check bullet performance !!!!
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2009
- Messages
- 7,529
- Reaction score
- 8,173
Barnes perform and hold together. They just flat out work.
There is a large enough problem with "some" hunters shooting AT a deer vs a spot on the deer. Most muzzleloader hunters might shoot a dozen rounds an entire season, which doesn't make them all bad shots, but many of them end up being just that. It never fails, every year we hear about the guys that put the bullet "IN THE BOILER ROOM", but we didn't find it. Really, in the "boiler room"? Then there's the guys that state minimal or no blood. Many times its because of PP shot placement. I know many have been put "In the boiler room", only to end up finding out they gut shot it.
That's certainly not everyone, but there are a lot of them out there.
Yes that bullet has been out there for awhile. Those who hunt with it love it.
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2016
- Messages
- 314
- Reaction score
- 191
I think that we were just saying that emphasis should be placed on shooter proficiency first, and above all else. Let's face it, some "hunters" can't shoot, don't practice, use the cheapest but most powerful caliber firearm/ammo they can afford/tolerate, and don't pick any of it up until the season hits. They step into the woods, lacking proficiency, having invested no time in their shooting skills in a controlled environment, and expect to make good harvests while loaded with adrenaline and taking less than ideal shots on game. Add all of this to the pressure of wanting to fill the freezer during a few days off from work, while also bragging to their buddies about their trophy, equipment, and hunting/shooting skills after the fact, and you have a perfect recipe for abject failure. At that point, they try and blame it on everything else but themselves when they don't humanely and successfully harvest a deer with their elephant gun, because of foolish pride.
Clearly, this is not you, and I respect your success and obvious dedication to doing it the right way, for what that is worth coming from me. Anyone that knows about and uses Barnes bullets, and is on this forum, is LIKELY not your average hunter.
Now, don't get me wrong, I like saving a dollar here and there, time is always limited, I like filling my freezer, and I enjoy the bragging rights of a successful hunt. I am not innocent. However, as most of us know, when you take a life, we owe it to the game, ourselves, and God to invest the appropriate amount of time, practice and money into it. That's what some folks, NOT ALL OR MOST MIND YOU, who claim to have made the perfect shot and never recovered the deer, have failed to do.
By the way, I like your Helen Keller blood trail reference...I normally use Stevie Wonder as mine.
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2016
- Messages
- 314
- Reaction score
- 191
I normally try to focus on the texture of the deer's hide when I am aiming in with my optic, pick a small but notable group of hairs in the vital zone, and shoot there. I don't shoot at heads or necks, nor do I shoot at moving deer. I'd rather pass the shot up, and wait for a better one, which seems to happen more often than not, even if it is a day or years later on the same deer. PLEASE KNOW THAT I AM NOT FAULTING ANYONE FOR DOING DIFFERENTLY. I'm sure we all have our own methods, and if it works for you, humanely, more power to you.
Too conservative? Maybe. Does it make me better or more ethical than other hunters? No way in hell. But it is personally necessary for me, as I only use single shot firearms when hunting, and I will not accept not doing everything I can to make the hunt successful and humane. Hunting deer took on a whole new glow when I started muzzleloading, and I was HOOKED on the patience, skill, and beauty of it from the first harvest.
Too conservative? Maybe. Does it make me better or more ethical than other hunters? No way in hell. But it is personally necessary for me, as I only use single shot firearms when hunting, and I will not accept not doing everything I can to make the hunt successful and humane. Hunting deer took on a whole new glow when I started muzzleloading, and I was HOOKED on the patience, skill, and beauty of it from the first harvest.
Doc White says the top of the heart , the aorta somthin or other , is his constant target . They die quickest placed tbere . I guess he should know !!!!
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2009
- Messages
- 7,529
- Reaction score
- 8,173
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2008
- Messages
- 66
- Reaction score
- 35
Phenix
I'm kind of like you in the aspect that I've grown accustomed to only getting one shot so make it count... In the past 20 years I've only hunted with single shot firearms. I've hunted with my Encore muzzleloader, 20 ga. H&R Ultraslug shotgun, a CVA .44 mag and then this .450, albeit my .450 is in the form of an AR... I've gotten used to the "aim small, miss small" philosophy having only one shot..make it count. In any and all firearms that I shoot I am wanting the most accurate round, which is why I went away from the shutgun because it was costing me a fortune a $3 per shot. And I like to shoot alot. My gun club's range goes out to 220 yards and I was consistently shooting that to improve my shooting because under 100 becomes a chip shot after that... I do agree that there are a lot of people who blow the dust off their rifles the kast week before season, shoot two rounds and consider it good... Like I said in my previous pist I've tried 6 or 7 different rounds in my gun before this last season and the FTX was by far the most accurate. I am going to do a thorough cleaning of my rifle and revisit the range with them all and see if I was having a bad day the last time I tried them all... Again I know Remington/Barnes are testing a bullet right now but it isn't out yet and I am sure that I will try those when they come out. I understand that I have a relatively small sample size but after reading alot about it I lnow that I am not the only one... anywho I hope everyone a great rest of the season and a Happy Thanksgiving...
I'm kind of like you in the aspect that I've grown accustomed to only getting one shot so make it count... In the past 20 years I've only hunted with single shot firearms. I've hunted with my Encore muzzleloader, 20 ga. H&R Ultraslug shotgun, a CVA .44 mag and then this .450, albeit my .450 is in the form of an AR... I've gotten used to the "aim small, miss small" philosophy having only one shot..make it count. In any and all firearms that I shoot I am wanting the most accurate round, which is why I went away from the shutgun because it was costing me a fortune a $3 per shot. And I like to shoot alot. My gun club's range goes out to 220 yards and I was consistently shooting that to improve my shooting because under 100 becomes a chip shot after that... I do agree that there are a lot of people who blow the dust off their rifles the kast week before season, shoot two rounds and consider it good... Like I said in my previous pist I've tried 6 or 7 different rounds in my gun before this last season and the FTX was by far the most accurate. I am going to do a thorough cleaning of my rifle and revisit the range with them all and see if I was having a bad day the last time I tried them all... Again I know Remington/Barnes are testing a bullet right now but it isn't out yet and I am sure that I will try those when they come out. I understand that I have a relatively small sample size but after reading alot about it I lnow that I am not the only one... anywho I hope everyone a great rest of the season and a Happy Thanksgiving...
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2016
- Messages
- 314
- Reaction score
- 191
Incidentally DNG, what do you use out of your CVA .44, and what is your range with it?
Thanks!
Thanks!
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2008
- Messages
- 66
- Reaction score
- 35
I'd have to double check but I believe that it was 240 gr Federal Fusion. My son and I both took nice does with that gun last year. Both were at about 50 yards and the gun/bullet combo did well. As far as the effective range for the .44 I personally would consider it a 100-125 yard gun.
