wanting to get a new muzzleloader

Discussion in 'New to Muzzleloading' started by superscifi12, Dec 25, 2018.

  1. Dec 25, 2018 #1

    superscifi12

    superscifi12

    superscifi12

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    So the majority of the muzzleloading experience I have is flintlock and round ball. I am wanting to try conicals. So that is either a Lyman side lock or an inline, considering a Knight. I bought my oldest son a littlehorn so I have a little inline experience. We shoot 3f goex and Hornady sabot FTX. Anyway I go I will still shoot goex, as I need it for my flintlock.

    I have been trying to read up on the Plunger vs Bolt designs, but I am not sure about the main advantages of each. I am not to worried about weather as it will be most likely snowing in December. I'm kind of leaning toward "western" Ignition as prying the FPJ off of the nipple kind of sucks on the littlehorn.

    The reason I'm leaning toward the inline is the ability to scope and the not crescent butt plate (also made in America doesn't hurt). Though a peep sight is not out of line.

    So any thing I missed to help my decision?
     
  2. Dec 25, 2018 #2

    Idaholewis

    Idaholewis

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    Me being a Sidelock Guy of course I’m gonna Recommend The Lyman Great Plains Hunter :D I have a Lyman Great Plains Hunter in .54 Cal, After a Few Modifications I really like the Rifle, i own several Custom Mold Conicals in .54 Cal, From Grease Groove, to Paper Patch and this Lyman has shot all of them extremely well. One thing I really disliked about this Rifle was the RIDICULOUSLY Sharp Crescent Butt Plate, that was the 1st thing to go! I rounded the “Knife edge” off the Metal with my Dremel tool and a Sanding Wheel, Touched it up with Cold Blue, Filled the Crescent with Memory foam, and installed a Leather Lace up Pad. I would put this Lyman up against any of my GM LRH Barrels for accuracy, This thing shoots REALLY well :yeah: I am not a Traditionalist type guy, i take functionality over looks ANY Ole Day! So the looks mean nothing to me, I actually prefer my GM LRH Barrels in my Renegade And Hawken Stocks since they are a bit Shorter, makes for easier handling. I added the Lyman 57 GPR Tang Peep, And Lyman 17 series Front Globe sight, I shoot Peep sights exclusively on all of my Muzzleloaders except my Knight MK-85 Which I decided to Scope. All n all the Lyman is a Great Rifle, and has proven itself accuracy wise over and over :yeah:
    [​IMG]

    I am not much of an inline guy, But If i were to Go inline i would go with a Bolt type Gun that I could shoot BH209 in, For My style of use my favorite of the Knight Rifles is the Mountaineer in .45 Cal 1:20 Twist (I Mostly shoot Bench/Target) That is 1 inline i would really like to have some day :yeah: I really like my Knight MK-85 for Handling, and it shoots VERY well. I find it a ROYAL pain to clean “To my satisfaction” It being a Plunger Gun Blowback can Wreak Havoc on a Scope finish if you don’t take the Appropriate measures to protect it, if you don’t plan to use a Scope, or BH209 this doesn’t matter. The Plunger guns like the MK-85 are not recommended for BH209 use. I would go more Modern if i were serious about a nice inline, For a nice hunting Rifle to carry in the Field i would look more toward the Knight Ultra Lite. Like my friend bubba.50 Say’s, That’s my opinion and Yer Welcome to it :yeah:
     
  3. Jan 11, 2019 at 12:06 AM #3

    muskrat30

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    33725898-54DB-4ADC-B7F1-09E886EC50A7.jpeg One thing to consider is the State and area you may be hunting. The regs may dictate some of what’s required, if hunting is planned.

    I’m more a M-L Guy for hunting, for me that now means an inline. I have drifted to Knight over the years, most often use a 45 Cal Elite. I do realize there are other fine choices out there.
     
  4. Jan 11, 2019 at 4:14 AM #4

    FredB

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    I have an old MK85 plunger gun, which I will keep forever because of the sentimental value. But I'm looking to upgrade when I can afford to, because like Idaholewis mentioned, the MK85 is a pain to clean. I have to take the action off the stock, remove the trigger, and remove the bolt (hammer, actually), then the nipple and breech plug. I'm assuming the newer Bighorns are the same, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm kind of assuming (dangerous, I know) that with a bolt action ml, I can leave the barreled action in the stock, and just remove the bolt to access the nipple and breech plug. Since range time is very precious to me, I think it would be worth the extra money to get the Disc Extreme over the Bighorn. Also, I've never had a problem with western ignition in rain or snow.
     
  5. Jan 11, 2019 at 2:12 PM #5

    Idaholewis

    Idaholewis

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    The Bighorn is identical to the MK-85 in the Cleaning aspect, Me being a serious Gun guy, and a non stop tinkerer, I understand the MK-85 as well as anyone possibly could, Believe me I have studied every possible way to Clean it THOROUGHLY to my “Personal satisfaction” (Which I believe is VERY different than some) This thing is PIG CRAP Nasty to clean Plain n Simple! I was Forewarned by Forum member Harleysboss, and Idahoron about how much more there is to Cleaning them, They were DEAD ON.
    That being said, If you don’t mind cleaning, The Bighorn, and MK-85 are great rifles!! I have handled and Shot both, i like the MK-85 MUCH better, The added Barrel length of the Bighorn makes it Balance odd for my Liking, I didn’t find it any problem when shooting it, But i did when i put it on my Shoulder with a Sling, I wasn’t a Big fan of it there at all! They both shoot 100 Yard MOA EASILY, They both have STELLAR Triggers in them, They are all around Awesome Rifles! EXCEPT for the Cleaning aspect of them, Again “To my Personal Satisfaction” and my opinion from hands on experience with Both Rifles.

    My friend, and Sport Store Owner that bought the Knight Bighorn Shot his rifle for the 1st time By himself, He Cleaned the Gun to the best of his understanding of it, He did ok, EXCEPT he didn’t understand Taking The Bolt apart? So he Scrubbed the Exterior (Everything he could get to) REALLY Good. When he brought me the Rifle to Prepare it for our upcoming Cow Elk Hunt it looked fine from the exterior, But I decided to Strip it down and Check his Cleaning? This is what I found, See anything Wrong here? Now remember this was a Brand new Rifle that was Fired 1 time. In my humble opinion These Bolts/Hammer assemblies NEED to be COMPLETELY stripped down after each shooting session and every piece of them thoroughly cleaned. Just think what this would have looked like in a Year of sitting, waiting for the upcoming Hunting season like a LOT of folks do, Not everyone shoots as much as i, and Many others do.
    [​IMG]

    Here is a Picture of my MK-85 Bolt stripped down after 6 Shots (Same as Bighorn) First off note how Black nasty it is from “Blow Back” Also if you look closely at the lower end of this Spring it is BADLY tarnished Black on the end that is “Hidden” inside the Collar, This is from the previous owner not knowing how to Take it apart to clean it, Luckily this entire bolt assembly is Stainless and the Collar shows no signs of Rust/damage, instead of Blued Parts like the bolt above. This Spring needs replacing
    [​IMG]

    The Barreled action is what i find to be the biggest PAIN to get thoroughly clean, Again “To my Personal satisfaction” This is after the same 6 Shots as the Bolt/Hammer assembly above. Here you can see a Tooth Brush pushed up inside trying to get it Scrubbed clean, Note how NASTY the inside of the Action is? BLACK Nasty! This needs to be cleaned back to Shiny Stainless! I have since started using a Shotgun Brush on a Cleaning Rod (Thanks to Sabotloader) This DEFINITELY helps a Bunch, But is stil a PAIN in my Opinion
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Jan 11, 2019 at 2:29 PM #6

    Idaholewis

    Idaholewis

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    The above is NOT in anyway intended to Bash the Knight MK-85, or Bighorn. Rather, The above is intended to help educate new Folks of the IMPORTANCE of thoroughly cleaning these Guns, if you want your Rifle to stay in “Tip Top” Shape you MUST be diligent in your Cleaning process, If you keep these Rifles thoroughly clean i have no doubt they will last a Lifetime, probably several Lifetimes. They are both SUPERBLY built Rifles!! And are VERY capable of accuracy one could expect from a High end Centerfire!! Just Do your part and keep them clean, they will serve you well!!
     
    herschel conyers likes this.
  7. Jan 11, 2019 at 6:14 PM #7

    FredB

    FredB

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    OMG, Idaholewis, I've never been able to disassemble my hammer assembly! I've always thought it would be helpful, to clean more thoroughly, or to be able to replace the original rubber O-ring. I should note that I bought my MK85 new in about 1995. The Knight factory instructions did not include disassembling the hammer assembly for cleaning. But that sure would make cleaning around the spring a lot easier.
     
  8. Jan 11, 2019 at 6:18 PM #8

    GM54-120

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    Idaholewis likes this.
  9. Jan 11, 2019 at 7:44 PM #9

    Idaholewis

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  10. Jan 11, 2019 at 7:49 PM #10

    Idaholewis

    Idaholewis

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    Fred, There is a Knurled Screw in the very back (Behind the Thumb nut/Second Safety) If it has not been removed it can be kinda tough to get loose, i used my little handheld Steam Cleaner to get it good and Hot with Steam, Then removed it no problem
     
  11. Jan 12, 2019 at 12:56 AM #11

    ShawnT

    ShawnT

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    The Thumb screw on the knight Plungers have a little Loctite on the threads. If you remove it just use some Teflon tape on it to make sure it stays in the plunger.
     
  12. Jan 12, 2019 at 2:29 AM #12

    Idaholewis

    Idaholewis

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    This is precisely what i did, Otherwise you risk it backing out and losing it
     
  13. Jan 14, 2019 at 12:50 PM #13

    Idaholewis

    Idaholewis

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    This stuff on these Plunger Guns should end up in a Sticky in the inline Section so new to the Sport folks can easily see this stuff, Be directed to it. Hopefully help save some of these guns/Bolts From Rottening away in a Closet unknowingly.

    Another VERY important thing to Remember with these Plunger/Slam Fire Guns like the Knight MK-85, And Bighorn is “Blowback” and what it will do to a Scope finish if you plan to use a Scope. I know a guy on this Board (we text by phone) i Haven’t seen him on here in a long time now? He bought a Brand New Knight Bighorn, he and i were talking about advantages/disadvantages of Both Sidelocks and inlines, i showed him the pictures above, and this 1 of “Blowback” I WARNED him to make DARN sure and Protect his Scope, IT WAS TO LATE! He had already Permanently Damaged his new Scope, He Stil thought maybe he just needed to Clean it better? NOPE, it’s Ruined Bud!

    These Plunger Guns will DESTROY a New Scope Finish in 1 outing, Luckily I learned this from a 10 Dollar Williams Eyepiece What Blowback will do, So when I Mounted a Scope i knew BETTER, again i got LUCKY! I would have wanted to Puke if i had Ruined a Brand New Leupold Scope etc. over this. How many folks do you think do this by not knowing any better? My guess would be the Majority of new Guy’s that Buy 1 of these Guns.

    This is From 6 Shots with my Knight MK-85, This was the Same 6 shots as the Dirty Gun Photos above, I used a Heavy Neoprene Winter Sock Between the Action and my Scope, This is what happened after my 6 Shots, My Brand New Scope would have been on the Recieving end of this, if i had not Known better and protected it
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Jan 14, 2019 at 1:29 PM #14

    munchoman

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    sucks to burn a new scope, I did that on a Leupold Vari-XIII, looks bad but still works fine though
     
  15. Jan 14, 2019 at 1:39 PM #15

    Idaholewis

    Idaholewis

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    That’s a Bummer!! I would wanna Puke! You aren’t the only 1 that’s done it. This is my point here, it can be prevented. But how many new guy’s to the Sport know this? By the time they realize what is happening, it’s to late
     
  16. Jan 14, 2019 at 2:07 PM #16

    Idaholewis

    Idaholewis

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    I know this stuff is talked about all through the inline section, But it continually gets buried. That’s why i say it should be made a Sticky so it’s easy to find this info.
    My experience above is with Big Lead Conicals, Swiss Real Blackpowder, and No. 11 Percussion caps. The Nipple i used above was a Brand new Treso/Ampco with a tiny .028 Flash Hole, I can only Imagine how much worse “Blow Back” would be with a Larger Flash Hole. Forum member Idahoron has said that the TC Hotshot nipples have Flash Holes that are like .034-.035 Brand New out of the Package, i have never measured one of them myself?
     

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