We all have been wrong about the QLA

[Boonechaser]

According to the foremost expert on everything Thompson, we are all dumbass shooters…

It is called DAS. Dumb ass shooter. When loading with a QLA people place the short starter on the ball which has not been set into the bore with a soft wooden ball starter and pop it down with the palm of their hand. because the QLA is larger than the bore the brass rod of the short starter can move off the ball and the palm pop results in the short starter being driven against the inner crown of the rifling eventually damaging it. The same applies to cleaning with a Jag. A damaged crown will not impact sabot rounds and patched round balls as greatly as it will a maxi or engraved bullet. When the QLA has been removed and the bore re-Crowned the flaws are removed.
Anyone who has a clear understanding of mill and lathe work will tell you the same thing it is near imposable to coin barrel incorrectly on a lathe as the barrel is turning not the cutter. I have modern rifles with coined barrels that shoot in excess of 1000 yards consistently. Likewise, I have won muzzleloader competitions on a national level shooting coined muzzles.
As far as being the local guru on T/C Not that it matters on the subject of machining. When national shooting and hunting magazines including the national muzzleloading rifle association's magazine have maters they need clarified on regarding Thompson Center side locks they call me. Telling me I am considered the nation's foremost leading expert on T/C muzzleloaders then request clarification.
I can bring millions of people who think Joe Biden is a genus. Does that make it true?

 

[Boonechaser]

Further comment by the foremost leading expert…

“the QLA cannot be misaligned from the bore on a T/C barrel. The barrel is bored then turned down to the outer detentions. the QLA is then cut by CNC while centered. The whole myth was created by the "I can build a better mouse trap gang"

 

[ElDiablo]

Wow! Who is this Master of the Universe?!

 

[Steelheader323]

Sheesh.. this guy really knows his stuff

 

[Boonechaser]

Wow! Who is this Master of the Universe?!

His name is Deester Bees and was supposedly a long time employee of Thompson

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

I loathe a QLA on a muzzleloader. Give me a nice crown any day.

 

[ElDiablo]

Well he deserves an award for most unique name anyway….

 

[bronko220002]

Well he deserves an award for most unique name anyway….

But I think he misspelled it. One too many Os!

 

[Boonechaser]

But I think he misspelled it. One too many Os!

I wasn’t sure what he meant by coined barrels, I’m assuming the expert meant coned? But I’m clearly no expert, nor do I claim to be…

 

[Steelheader323]

His name is Deester Bees and was supposedly a long time employee of Thompson

Oof…I have him on Facebook..claims to have worked there a long time wich is fine and all…but the qla issue has been proven

 

[bronko220002]

I wasn’t sure what he meant by coined barrels, I’m assuming the expert meant coned? But I’m clearly no expert, nor do I claim to be…

Oohh ok. Sorry I thought it was you that was saying we were all wrong about the QLA. I apologize.

 

[JeffB1961]

is "QLA" the recess that protects the rifling crown at the end of the barrel ?

 

[GM54-120]

is "QLA" the recess that protects the rifling crown at the end of the barrel ?

Yes and the one TC used was deeper.

 

[WV Hunter]

I actually like the "idea" of the QLA. It makes it easy to start bullets for sure, especially with a tighter load.
I shoot sabots in my TC's that have the QLA so its a non issue for me. I agree, it has been proven that many have issues.

 

[Ka'imiloa]

I actually like the "idea" of the QLA. It makes it easy to start bullets for sure, especially with a tighter load.
I shoot sabots in my TC's that have the QLA so its a non issue for me. I agree, it has been proven that many have issues.

 

[Ka'imiloa]

Just my two cents worth, having shot, and restored, muzzleloaders of multiple types, and hunted with them, for more than 63 years now (am turning 80).
Provided a QLA is properly created at manufacture, or later, it will be centered to the bore. My wife and I have .54 T/C Renegades, used for many a year, and well into the game I sent the barrels to T/C for QLA when that first became available. Very accurate with proper bullet/sabot combination that is tight-fitting. But yes, one barrel's bore is a little tighter (probably about .001" difference in bore D.)
The key points, to me:
1) A bullet must be aligned with the axis of the bore, hence it is important how you seat a bullet in a cartridge neck, or in a ML barrel. And the same goes for how a bullet sits in its sabot sleeve. Plastic gives, after all. An undersized bullet in a particular sabot is all the more an issue re this. Do sabots differ in OD size and ID size? Oh my yes -- get out your calipers and measure bullets and sabots, then the bullet plus sabot combination. In the early days of saboted bullets, the OD of the combination was sometimes shocking! Bottom line: press your bullet fully down into its sabot, and hold it there by pinched fingers while you start it into bore or QLA recess. Then place your brass jag centered onto the top of the bullet and start the saboted bullet down the barrel very carefully, avoiding any cant of the axis of your ramrod or short starter. Flat jag and flat topped bullet are no problem. Today's pointed-up bullets make a proper-fit jag recess essential. And remember, the longer the bullet, the more the ramrod pressure can cant the bullet by pressure at its tip.
2) Barrel crowns don't get damaged by brass or aluminum jags, they do get damaged by steel ramrods having a burr, or slight edge where the three-piece ramrod sections join. If using these, examine closely, de-bur, and polish a bit. (A steel ramrod becomes mighty useful at times if dry weather and hard fouling makes a bullet-sabot mighty hard to get clear down the barrel. I usually have one in in my pack if hunting. Been there, done that!) Crowns also get damaged by grit on a jag of any kind, or grit on a wood, brass or aluminum rod. (Steel rods don't embed grit.)
3) A sabot has to be inserted into a crowned muzzle carefully (ditto with skirted bullet) to avoid damaging its skirt. Leaking skirt can tip a bullet as it leaves ordinary muzzle or QLA muzzle. That's why it is useful to very carefully insert a saboted bullet into either type of muzzle while pinching the bullet in place in its sabot with fingers during insertion.
End game: properly loaded saboted bullet, in bore-centered QLA or typical frontal muzzle crown (it has to be bore-centered too, occasionally one is a bit cock-eyed), is going to shoot exactly the same, in my humble opinion. I think many a complaint about QLA muzzles has everything to do with the things mentioned above, and nothing to do with the fact that the muzzle is the QLA type.
Aloha, Ka'imiloa

 

[Pathfinder60]

Just my two cents worth, having shot, and restored, muzzleloaders of multiple types, and hunted with them, for more than 63 years now (am turning 80).
Provided a QLA is properly created at manufacture, or later, it will be centered to the bore. My wife and I have .54 T/C Renegades, used for many a year, and well into the game I sent the barrels to T/C for QLA when that first became available. Very accurate with proper bullet/sabot combination that is tight-fitting. But yes, one barrel's bore is a little tighter (probably about .001" difference in bore D.)
The key points, to me:
1) A bullet must be aligned with the axis of the bore, hence it is important how you seat a bullet in a cartridge neck, or in a ML barrel. And the same goes for how a bullet sits in its sabot sleeve. Plastic gives, after all. An undersized bullet in a particular sabot is all the more an issue re this. Do sabots differ in OD size and ID size? Oh my yes -- get out your calipers and measure bullets and sabots, then the bullet plus sabot combination. In the early days of saboted bullets, the OD of the combination was sometimes shocking! Bottom line: press your bullet fully down into its sabot, and hold it there by pinched fingers while you start it into bore or QLA recess. Then place your brass jag centered onto the top of the bullet and start the saboted bullet down the barrel very carefully, avoiding any cant of the axis of your ramrod or short starter. Flat jag and flat topped bullet are no problem. Today's pointed-up bullets make a proper-fit jag recess essential. And remember, the longer the bullet, the more the ramrod pressure can cant the bullet by pressure at its tip.
2) Barrel crowns don't get damaged by brass or aluminum jags, they do get damaged by steel ramrods having a burr, or slight edge where the three-piece ramrod sections join. If using these, examine closely, de-bur, and polish a bit. (A steel ramrod becomes mighty useful at times if dry weather and hard fouling makes a bullet-sabot mighty hard to get clear down the barrel. I usually have one in in my pack if hunting. Been there, done that!) Crowns also get damaged by grit on a jag of any kind, or grit on a wood, brass or aluminum rod. (Steel rods don't embed grit.)
3) A sabot has to be inserted into a crowned muzzle carefully (ditto with skirted bullet) to avoid damaging its skirt. Leaking skirt can tip a bullet as it leaves ordinary muzzle or QLA muzzle. That's why it is useful to very carefully insert a saboted bullet into either type of muzzle while pinching the bullet in place in its sabot with fingers during insertion.
End game: properly loaded saboted bullet, in bore-centered QLA or typical frontal muzzle crown (it has to be bore-centered too, occasionally one is a bit cock-eyed), is going to shoot exactly the same, in my humble opinion. I think many a complaint about QLA muzzles has everything to do with the things mentioned above, and nothing to do with the fact that the muzzle is the QLA type.
Aloha, Ka'imiloa

Mahalo Ka'imiloa. Great insight!

 

[JeffB1961]

Ka'imiloa what are your (and others) thoughts on carbon fiber ram rods ? in particular the cva mrx bunji CF ram rod ..... are the shoulders where the sections join something to be concerned about ? yes it's useless for cleaning , only good for loading , but it would only be used for reloading in the field because i have a range rod for cleaning and paper punching .

 

[4stringdude]

Honestly, I've been shooting a T/C Thunderhawk in .54 cal for over 20 years. It has the QLA. Until I joined this forum, I had not heard of issues with the QLA barrels. I guess ignorance is bliss. Since no one told me it was bad, I had no idea. Getting consistent groups is a matter of fact with this rifle. I shoot full bore lead conicals.

 

[brad502a]

Honestly, I've been shooting a T/C Thunderhawk in .54 cal for over 20 years. It has the QLA. Until I joined this forum, I had not heard of issues with the QLA barrels. I guess ignorance is bliss. Since no one told me it was bad, I had no idea. Getting consistent groups is a matter of fact with this rifle. I shoot full bore lead conicals.

Some were OK. Some were centered on the OD of the barrel, where the rifled bore was not centered on the OD of the barrel. I have cut, chambered, and crowned many centerfire rifle barrel. I have yet to see one where the OD was concentric to bore.