What IS this stuff?

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The most confusing part of this whole ordeal is why it sticks in the bottom, supposed to float to the top....
 
One of The worst things i have done is to Stir a BONE DRY stick in the Mix (Thinking it i was Doing a Good thing?) But i was taught that Scraping the bottom of the pot with a wood stick is a sure way to force ash deposits outside the surface skin of the melt on the bottom and get them in your bullets.

You would think the Fine Debris would POP RIGHT UP ON TOP and Float? It Don’t!

The KEY is a vigorous scraping of the bottom of the pot with a spoon and then stir FAST to create a nice Whirling vortex, This will bring this stuff out
 
why you using solder with 50/50 lead. just use pure lead, if you want little harder put 1 pound tin for every 20 lead. no need for any other stuff. that keeps it simple
That would be 20:1 I think that’s too hard. 1/2 lbs tin for 20 lbs lead is 40:1. I tried the 35:1 on a whim and they shot very well. That’s what I sent to Lewis, and they shot very well for him also. I don’t use the bullet I’ve been casting for hunting, too small meplat. Although I think at 40:1 or 35:1 it would still expand very well at under 200 yards, beyond that, I don’t know I’d dare try it.
 
One of The worst things i have done is to Stir a BONE DRY stick in the Mix (Thinking it i was Doing a Good thing?) But i was taught that Scraping the bottom of the pot with a wood stick is a sure way to force ash deposits outside the surface skin of the melt on the bottom and get them in your bullets.
I probably just need to leave it alone after I flux, I’m always stirring and scraping, every 15-20 bullets. I think the ones I sent to you, I used my ladle. Don’t remember it’s been more than 10 minutes :)
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but every time we heat a molten metal up it reacts with the oxygen in the air, causing a certain amount of slag/dross/impurities to form?

Wouldn't some of those impurities tend to be drawn down towards the bottom of a bottom-pour pot, and possibly collect in the spout/pour portion of the pot?

RotoMetals claims that it's "Pure Lead" is only 99% lead. No specifying what the other 1% is. Whatever that impurity is, perhaps it is what tends to collect on the sides and bottom of a ladle-style pot?And, maybe it is what is plaguing sdporter's bottom-pour pot?

I've never used a bottom-pour pot, but I always had slag stuck to the sides of the pots I used to cast round balls. I ended up making a scraper to clean that stuff out of the pot before the next casting session.

Just spit-balling here, don't know if it helps.
Bruce
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but every time we heat a molten metal up it reacts with the oxygen in the air, causing a certain amount of slag/dross/impurities to form?

Wouldn't some of those impurities tend to be drawn down towards the bottom of a bottom-pour pot, and possibly collect in the spout/pour portion of the pot?

RotoMetals claims that it's "Pure Lead" is only 99% lead. No specifying what the other 1% is. Whatever that impurity is, perhaps it is what tends to collect on the sides and bottom of a ladle-style pot?And, maybe it is what is plaguing sdporter's bottom-pour pot?

I've never used a bottom-pour pot, but I always had slag stuck to the sides of the pots I used to cast round balls. I ended up making a scraper to clean that stuff out of the pot before the next casting session.

Just spit-balling here, don't know if it helps.
Bruce
Bruce, I think your exactly right, as far as the oxidation (exposure to air) is concerned. If there is no oxygen, it cannot “oxidize” that’s why we bleed N2 into a refrigerant/medical gas line while we braze, keep that nasty black oxidation on the outside. I thought lead, being one of our heaviest elements, would float that stuff to the top, or, it would at least be confined to the layer that is exposed to oxygen (the top). I have never stirred it with a wood (carbon) stir stick, which is supposed to gather up all the impurities, and it’s a real challenge to try and get sawdust down to the bottom. I know the lead I start out with is rather dirty, but I go through that whole process of fluxing and stirring and skimming, until it appears it is pretty clean (in a different pot) before I make the mini muffin ingots that I use in the Lee. On a whim, I think I’ll order 20 lbs from Roto and see if the problem goes away, if it does, I’ll know it’s my process in cleaning my lead. I just hate to buy lead, when I have about 3000 lbs of it sitting in my shop. Some of it is brand new sheet lead that’s never been attached to the wall, some an old x-ray machine we took out of the hospital, some elevator counter weights, and access to 50,000 lbs plus from an old imaging room in a portion of our old building that we no longer perform any kind of cancer treatment/imaging services in and will be taken down in about 18 months. There’s probably over 100 tons of lead in that building, that I can buy from our asset recovery bunch for 10% of what scrap value is....
 

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Lewis’ tip of covering the top with sawdust and letting it form charcoal to form a barrier from the oxygen thus reducing oxidation would eliminate a big problem.
 
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What about when your tin and lead separate, How will you stir it? I just never been a fan of adding dirty stuff to the pot. I know, I know, Lewis pours some dam fine bullets! I just cant see that.
 
If you want a little harder lead than Pure Lead then do what Idaholewis does and buy Certified 40-1 lead. No mess no fuss no measuring and no ruining lead and trying to fix. Just melt, cast some Bullets and shoot. :lewis:
 
What about when your tin and lead separate, How will you stir it? I just never been a fan of adding dirty stuff to the pot. I know, I know, Lewis pours some dam fine bullets! I just cant see that.

You flux, stir and scrape up the crud which causes it to float to the top. I use an old spoon with a wooden dowel handle for this. Your lead and tin will not separate after it is alloyed. I use a layer of sawdust that is burned off to keep the air out of the top of the mix. When you add more lead you can stir it as much as you want. The burned sawdust will still be there. I pour beautiful clean bullets from the bottom of the pot and never empty the pot more than about 3/4 inch from the bottom. That does two things. It makes the lead left in the pot melt quicker and also prevents dripping. Emptying the pot through the bottom spout allows any floating crud to get in the valve and spout. I'm convinced that is the major cause of dripping pots because mine never has.I couldn't care less what the top layer of my lead alloy looks like as long as I get perfect bullets.
 
Never had this problem . All of my lead /tin mix is mixed in a cast pot. Lead is melted into ingots first in the same pot , fluxed and cleaned and poured. I use beeswax to flux. What doesn't burn off is skimmed with the dross. = Shiny melt. Later lead and tin mixed to hardness that I want. Pure is already done so 30-1 BPCR hunting bullets , 16-1 pistol bullets, all mixed in Iron pot and poured to ingots. Each mix has its own lead pot. 30-1 has ladle cast Wagge pot. Pure lead has ladle cast Lyman pot and 16-1 has RCBS bottom pour. I am going to get a Lee bottom pour and drill it out like IdahoLewis cause he pours some dang nice bullets with his and that's something I have to learn with a bottom pour pot.
I drilled mine out and that helped keep the spout from plugging up.
 
I am only alloying with tin, 50/50 solder is ONLY lead and tin 50% of each. No other ingredient.
Why not google up mix for solder, never heard of 50/50. use pure lead , and add right pure tin in the right mix but mix for 10 pound pot would not be very much tin period.
 
If you go back and use a ladle to cast you will avoid much of the stuff in the bullets. I have been casting ML bullets: RB and Minnie and real bullets since 1964. Never had any problem with inclusions, have always use sawdust and shavings for flux. I have used bottom pour when at other persons facility and it's really no faster or better than ladle. I have never had any stuff sink in molten lead, wish it were true as it probably be gold or uranium. Have had stuff stick on the bottom when starting a melt when the melt holds it down but comes right up with a scraping. I also use "green" wood sticks to scrape and stir as per old times flux technology. The ladle pouring works especially good when making large bullets. The use of a bit of tin in the real, Minnie and lube ringed bullets really gives much better fillout. Very necessary with the Minnie and real bullets. 40/1 is plenty tin to give plenty fillout. As for stuff sticking in pot could be the solder used, it may have flux in it and causes the melt to stick to stuff. I use pewter to get the tin into the melt. As for a pot I have several de-milled propane tanks cut at various volumes and they work just fine. Sometimes on propane burner or even in fire ring for using wood heat. For more information check over on cast boolits for prodigious volumes of info on casting bullets.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forum.php

And oh yes I hoard lead and have over 3000 lb of ingots and raw "ore" like WW, sheet, cable sheath, counter weights, "nuclear" medical containers and 50 pound commercial ingots and 5 pound ingots of plumbers lead and lead "rings" salvaged from old iron waste pipe joints, and several buckets of various types of fishing and net weights. Lead is where you find it.

Best to all, W
 
I’ve done plumbing for 32 years this November and know a couple (only a couple) of things about solder. 50/50 is the old stuff that was available before the feds got involved with all the “lead free” b.s. in potable water applications,(lead free brass sucks btw).
It is not an acid core or rosin core type solder and needs paste flux to be used in applying it to anything, only lead and tin. You can still get it at most small hardware stores, they also have a 60/40 (used in a lot of stained glass I think, not entirely sure). It also, is only lead and tin, 60% lead, 40% tin.
50/50 is easier to figure the ratio on, so that is what I prefer to use. The newer, more common, lead free solder 95/5 (95% tin 5% antimony) is available through most plumbing supply warehouses only.
40/1 alloy is 2-1/2 % tin, add the 5% antimony to that (if my math is right 5% of 2-1/2% is .00125%, or a 1/10 of a percent) and I don’t think that would make a lick of difference in the hardness of the bullet, but, I don’t use it.
The big orange and blue stores (Home Depot, Lowe’s) sell something totally different, I think it contains silver, and copper phosphorous, but not sure, I looked it up once, but forget the contents cause I wasn’t interested, and they price it like it were made of gold.
I am only using it if I know the contents, and can figure the ratio easily.
I don’t think the crap comes from my alloy, but more from my method.
I have chucked the sheet lead into my pot before to get weight of the lead just right and I probably need to just try mixing the alloy in my cast iron kettle and pour ingots, then melt them down in my bottom pour,
I’m gonna try that next and see if that helps.
I have sooo much free lead that I hate to buy any. The price of a little solder, or tin is pretty cheap for 10 lbs of bullets.
I hardness check all my ingots before I put them in my pot to make sure I’m at about a 5 BHN before I add any tin (solder).
Not trying to argue, or sound like a “know-it-all” cause I’m not. That’s why I asked the question.
I take a lot of stock in all the replies, but I think my alloy is right on. I think it’s my (as previously stated) method, as I have got this mess just using the sheet lead with no alloy before, there again, cutting it into strips and melting down in the bottom pour pot instead of the cast iron pot and turning it into ingots.
 
Here it is:
 

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While I mostly ladle pour, I can't knock the bottom pour bullet guys. I've seen Lewis's bullets all over these forums and along with a few others they have NO problem dropping large bullets from a bottom pour pot.
 
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