What kind of accuracy should I expect TC Hawken

[BobinIL]

I have a very nice TC Hawken 50 cal I purchased that I believe was unfired. The bore was bright and shiney. I have been using Goex FF and patched RB with .10 patch lubed with Bore butter. I swab with a wet patch followed by a dry patch after each shot. I have tried both .490 and .495 RB. I can only get about 3" groups at 70 yards. I think my bigest problem is the sights. The bead is hard to see and it pretty much covers a 4" circle at 70 yards distance. Am I getting all I can get out of this gun or should it be doing better? So far every shot I have fired would kill a deer so that is a positive. I'm just not seeing tack driving accuracy.

 

[Semisane]

With GOEX and patched balls I would certainly expect five-shot groups of two inches or less at 75 yards with that gun Bobin.

You didn't state the size of your powder charge. My round ball shooters generally get best accuracy with GOEX charges somewhere in the 75 to 95 grain range, depending on the gun.

How tight are your patches. Have you inspected the fired patches to see if they are holding together well, or if they have cuts or burn throughs between the ball and the bore? In my experience, best accuracy requires a ball/patch combination that requires a pretty stiff whack on the short starter to seat the ball in the bore, followed by a smooth push down the bore with the loading rod.

Frankly, I would lose the bore butter. There are many better patch lubes out there, including olive oil or peanut oil. Over the years I've tried at least a dozen different patch lubes (probably well over a dozen). These days all I use in every one of my round ball shooters is Liquid Wrench Penetrating Oil. I wet a stack of patches with the oil, massage the stack with my fingers to distribute the oil evenly, then place the stack in a paper towel and squeeze the bundle so the paper takes up all excess oil. The patches feel almost dry, are pleasant to handle, and shoot as well or better than any other lube I've tried.

 

[rfd]

imho, its inherent accuracy will only be limited by your ability to [1] find a good load that comprises components, load process, and fouling control, and [3] how well you can shoot that rifle. iow, its accuracy is totally up to your abilities. how cool is that?! :yeah: 8)

with regards to the load, do LOTS of testing of powder types, powder charges, powder compression, patch types and thicknesses, patch lube, casting good balls, LOTS of experiments, but do test each change separately.

 

[Semisane]

The bead is hard to see and it pretty much covers a 4" circle at 70 yards distance.

I missed that part in my first reply Bobin. I find it very difficult to get target accuracy with that type of hold on the bull. Try a six o'clock hold on a 3" bull and see what you get.

 

[cayuga]

As some suggested, I would try a six o'clock hold. If you picture your sights, I like my round ball to hit right on top of where the front sight ends. Unless of course, I am intentionally letting the rifle hit high do to I wanted a dead center bull at longer ranges. I do have a couple rifles with open sights, sighted in that way.

As for the accuracy question. It will depend on how good a load you work up. How consistent your loading procedure is. And your personal shooting skills. For instance, I have a friend that with a scope will shoot your eye out. With open sights, your pretty safe. He once shot for a heart shot on a deer with his T/C Hawken and hit it in the neck, killing it dead. He was only 30 yards away. He gets excited, lets say.

So work up a good load, know your loading procedure, have good shooting skills, and practice. I am happy for a 4 inch group at 100 yards open sights anymore. 75 yards I shoot a large 2 inch most of the time. Unless the muzzle loader gods are in a trickster kind of mood that day.

 

[rfd]

+1 what cayuga just typed.

i will also add that using an aperture rear sight will typically make for almost instant better accuracy, and better yet by replacing the front blade with globe aperture as well. these are the same type of reticules used with bpcr rifles. the down sides are at least two - it will take more time to line up on a critter with an aperture (or two), and most trad ml matches require iron sights and disallow apertures.

 

[shguns]

Try the above suggestions.
Also I would seriously consider using a thicker patch than 0.010.
I like 0.020 or a bit thicker in my round ball barrel.

 

[edmehlig]

Ditto to what Dave said. Back when I was in the Marines, they called it "point of aim, point of impact".

 

[wolfer]

Those TC sights are kinda coarse. As my eyesight declined I went to a "fire" type front sight and peep type rear sight. That should make things much better. In my PRB guns there seemed to be a good spot at 85 gr of FFF and a "tight" patch on the ball. In 50 cal I preferred the .490 swaged RB. If you can hold a real 4" group off bags at 100 with open sights that is very good. Now I am unable to shoot open sights reliably and thank goodness here in VA we can use optics on ML or my hunting days for ML would be over. W

 

[rfd]

wolfer, have ya tried aperture sights instead of iron? there are lots of ways to do this, but most important will be an aperture rear - the front can still be a blade, or a globe aperture as well. man, it was pitiful for me trying to get my 70yo eyes to work with a notch rear sight and now ... wow, what a difference, and no need to resort to optics! the aperture magically makes that front sight pop out clear and sharp, right on yer target.

you also don't need to spend upwards of $150 on a lyman SML/17 aperture sight system. aperture sights just needs a hole in the rear sight and most any ol' hole will do nicely.

there are lotsa relatively easy ways to do this. in the case of this investarms .50 hawken, it has a screw-down barrel sight with adjustable elevation and windage. i just filed down the buckhorn and epoxied on a small piece of hardwood with about a 3/16" hole in the wood as the aperture. that's all that's required, and the hole size can be varied to suit yer eyes. i went a small step further and added a lyman aperture eye cup i had lying around.

if yer rear barrel sight is a simple notch one that's dovetailed on, just glue (or better yet, for trial purposes just use double stick tape) a piece of wood with a small hole in it onto the sight. there are also a number of dovetail aperture rear sights available from skinner, marbles, lyman and others, for as little as $15.

 

[Semisane]

DANG rfd, that's innovative. I will be copying it for a .32 CVA Squirrel, except I think I'll solder an aluminum or brass block to the sight instead of wood. I have two or three aperture eye cup somewhere around here.

 

[rfd]

semisane, that'd be the better way to do it for sure!

the only downside to using an aperture sight on a trad muzzleloader is that most matches and events require iron sights and apertures/peeps are illegal.

 

[Semisane]

I would take some delicate work and two small fine thread screws, but holes could be drilled through the ears of the sight and matching holes in the brass/aluminum block threaded so the block could be attached with screws, and removed at will.

 

[rfd]

I would take some delicate work and two small fine thread screws, but holes could be drilled through the ears of the sight and matching holes in the brass/aluminum block threaded so the block could be attached with screws, and removed at will.

now that sounds killer! when will they hit the stores so i can buy me one? :mrgreen: :yeah: :yeah: