What powder to replace Goex

[SDK]

Thanks for the post…

I actually grabbed two bottles of Swiss FFF from a local shop that had some. I haven’t even picked up a traditional rifle yet, but such is the new reality finding components. I was not going to pass them by and then not be able to find any when I pick up a rifle.

Will post back after I get some range time, but I’m happy that I was able to find the Swiss locally. I don’t mind using subs and shotgun primers with an inline, but wanted real BP, patches and lead for the old school ML….

 

[Mnt monkey]

Market dynamics have cause many of us to buy powder that we've never used before . I personally think that a consistant availability and economical prices are over. I find myself purchasing any powder and any primer that will go bang, just so I can have the potential to go bang. Will probably influence a lot of potential muzzleloaders to take a second look at a traditional rifle, it has me, at least it's easier to find components for those than it is for a modern 209 ,, I do think from a market analyzing point of view it's interesting that knight and CVA have new hot rod muzzleloaders shooting very heavy charges of blackhorn which is doubled in price and you can't buy anywhere unless you're on a waiting list or hovering by your computer waiting on a message that it's back in stock. I have purchased Swiss 2f and 3F and pioneer 3F,, and the lack of Black Horn is sure influencing my steps toward traditional muzzleloadin.I love shooting muzzleloader so much that if I have to switch to Black powder pure and traditional muzzleloaders to keep shooting I sure will do that. And smokeless of course

 

[SDK]

Agree 100%.

I’m new to inlines and looking forward to seeing what they can do. Having said that, I was a more than capable shooter and hunter with just a plain Hawken rifle.

Its all about the hunter for me and less about the technology. I remember getting laughed at as a teen for showing up to duck hunt with a $99 sears pump shotgun. They shut up quick when I outshot them all.

I am going to try and bag a deer with my son this fall using the inline, then I think any additional hunting for the season will be old school. I want to keep the skill set sharp and pass it along to my boy…

 

[Retiredusn]

Schuetzen brand is good stuff from what I've read. About the same as Goex.
Swiss is the top of line black powder.
Loose powder Triple 7 is a good choice for a sub if that's all you can get.

How well does this shoot? In a Flintlock
Got any written reports that compare them?
Do you use the same amount?

 

[deermanok]

How well does this shoot? In a Flintlock
Got any written reports that compare them?
Do you use the same amount?

I think the Holy Black is the only reliable powder for flintlocks.

 

[Renegadehunter]

I find Schuetzen to be about exactly the same as Goex, perhaps just a touch less fouling residue from Schuetzen is the only difference I could see.
If I use the same charge with either one, they both hit the same point of impact. I could have a rifle sighted in with 80 grains of Goex 2f and then would load up with 80 grains of Schuetzen 2f and go hunting with full confidence in my POI. When I was doing club shoots frequently with a local muzzleloader club I switched back and forth between the two quite often, the club did large group buys every so often and they would buy whichever was the best price at the time. I did some testing at the beginning, thinking that switching between the two would require me to adjust my sights, but found that it wasn't an issue at all. The above was with 2f granulation only, at the time I hadn't ever tried working up an accurate 3f load. Now, with PRB, 3f is all I use because I like that it leaves less fouling. I've only used Goex 3f, so will definitely to do POI testing when I use up all of my Goex and have to go to Schuetzen 3f, just to be sure.
Never tried Swiss but have read countless reviews that it is the best.
I've never tried a sub of any kind, I have no experiences with them. I've never heard or read anyone, ever, say they got reliable ignition from a sub in a flintlock. Some use it, but they prime with "real" black and some also would load 10 grains of real black first into the bore and then put a sub on top of that for the rest of the charge they wanted. This ensured they got reliable ignition yet used as little real black as necessary per shot.

 

[ihookem]

A few years ago I got a brand new TC Renegade 54 cal. single trigger fro $300. I felt a bit guilty. A few months later at the same gun shop I find an almost new Renegade double trigger 50 cal. for $300. I felt a bit guilty again. Now I dont feel guilty. Even the old muzzleloaders seem to be getting scarce. Cant hardly find caps neither.

 

[rfd]

Three days ago I started searching for real black powder online, not for me as I've got Many pounds, but for folks in need these weird dayze.

I spoke with Jon @ AddictedToBlackPowder.com and here's the scoop on his powder cost and current in-stock availability ...

Swiss $27.00/lb - 1FG, 1.5 FG, 4FG

Swiss Caviar (this is special spherical black powder) $29/lb 2FG

Schuetzen $18.5/lb - 2FG, 3FG

Goex $20/lb - 1FG

Goex Ole Ensford $22/lb - 1FG

Powder can be purchased as little as a 1lb can, and on up to a 25lb or 50lb case.

Shipments can be of mixed brands and granulations.

For ALL flintlocks, you really only need one granulation, 3F, works perfectly fast in the pan ... I've even tested out 2F and it's just as good, if not better for damp/wet weather as it will not accumulate as much humidity. Remember, back in the day (18th and 19th centuries) 2F was rare as hen's teeth and 1F was the norm.

Shipping is Fed Ex based on weight and zip code - This is dependent on shipping distance and will include a HazMat fee AND a "Covid-19 handling" fee. Jon estimates between $70 and $120 for a 25lb carton. Clearly, the more you buy the cheaper per pound the powder becomes. This is where group buys are the way to go, and stock pile what you can because times will be getting tougher for the Holy Black.

As an example, 25lbs of Schuetzen 2F or 3F will cost $462.50 +$70 to $120 shipping, for a final cost of between $532.50 and $582.50, for a final cost per pound of $21.30 to $23.30.

CCI 4 Wing musket caps / RWS 4 Wing $ 100/ 1000
Rws 1075+ (works for # 10 or # 11) $ 90 / 1000

Jon Blackert
22515 150 East St
Mineral, Il 61344

www.addictedtoblackpowder.com

Office / Home (815) 542-6287
Cell (309) 945-2666

 

[SDK]

Thanks for the research and new (to me) resource. I’m going to reach out and see if I can get on an alert list for Swiss FFF

 

[rfd]

FWIW, I've used Swiss 1-1/2F in flintlocks from .45 to .62 bore and it works just fine, with fast ignition and good accuracy, AND it's definitely better in humid/wet weather. In fact, I may just be using it instead of my usual Swiss 3F, and then I'll only need one black powder for muzzleloaders and .45-70 Sharps/Rollers cartridge rifles. Life is good.

 

[Dave951]

How well does this shoot? In a Flintlock
Got any written reports that compare them?
Do you use the same amount?

How's this? Kibler Colonial flintlock in 54cal, ball size was actually 530. I shoot Swiss in my competition guns and won't use anything else. I go through upwards of 30lbs per year in practice and actual competition. When you buy your powder in 25lb lots, price goes down. When using Swiss, cut the charges by about 10% for equivalent velocity. In cutting the charges, that means more shots per pound making the price not too different from Schuetzen.

 

[Dave951]

Three days ago I started searching for real black powder online, not for me as I've got Many pounds, but for folks in need these weird dayze.

I spoke with Jon @ AddictedToBlackPowder.com and here's the scoop on his powder cost and current in-stock availability ...

Swiss $27.00/lb - 1FG, 1.5 FG, 4FG

Swiss Caviar (this is special spherical black powder) $29/lb 2FG

Schuetzen $18.5/lb - 2FG, 3FG

Goex $20/lb - 1FG

Goex Ole Ensford $22/lb - 1FG

Powder can be purchased as little as a 1lb can, and on up to a 25lb or 50lb case.

Shipments can be of mixed brands and granulations.

For ALL flintlocks, you really only need one granulation, 3F, works perfectly fast in the pan ... I've even tested out 2F and it's just as good, if not better for damp/wet weather as it will not accumulate as much humidity. Remember, back in the day (18th and 19th centuries) 2F was rare as hen's teeth and 1F was the norm.

Shipping is Fed Ex based on weight and zip code - This is dependent on shipping distance and will include a HazMat fee AND a "Covid-19 handling" fee. Jon estimates between $70 and $120 for a 25lb carton. Clearly, the more you buy the cheaper per pound the powder becomes. This is where group buys are the way to go, and stock pile what you can because times will be getting tougher for the Holy Black.

As an example, 25lbs of Schuetzen 2F or 3F will cost $462.50 +$70 to $120 shipping, for a final cost of between $532.50 and $582.50, for a final cost per pound of $21.30 to $23.30.

CCI 4 Wing musket caps / RWS 4 Wing $ 100/ 1000
Rws 1075+ (works for # 10 or # 11) $ 90 / 1000

Jon Blackert
22515 150 East St
Mineral, Il 61344

www.addictedtoblackpowder.com

Office / Home (815) 542-6287
Cell (309) 945-2666

I buy my powder and caps from Back Creek Gunshop. He's in Winchester VA and is located adjacent to Fort Shenandoah, the home North South Skirmish Association range where we hold our National competition. When I go to "Nats", I stock up.

 

[rfd]

The problem with acquiring the black for most folks is location, where it's just not available in reasonable driving distance, and that means mail order. That is, mail order while mail ordering the black is still available ... I suspect eventually that might go by the wayside, too.

 

[Retiredusn]

How's this? Kibler Colonial flintlock in 54cal, ball size was actually 530. I shoot Swiss in my competition guns and won't use anything else. I go through upwards of 30lbs per year in practice and actual competition. When you buy your powder in 25lb lots, price goes down. When using Swiss, cut the charges by about 10% for equivalent velocity. In cutting the charges, that means more shots per pound making the price not too different from Schuetzen.

Thanks for the great report.

 

[TScottW99]

Good question/post. Just picked up a new double barrel BP shotgun and my last can of Goex is almost dry.

 

[Dave951]

The problem with acquiring the black for most folks is location, where it's just not available in reasonable driving distance, and that means mail order. That is, mail order while mail ordering the black is still available ... I suspect eventually that might go by the wayside, too.

Problems require solutions. It's cost prohibitive for a brick n mortar local gun shop to stock black powder just on the off chance that you'll wander in and need a pound. For those not engaged in competition shooting, your best bet is to get acquainted with either a reenacting group or an NMLRA Charter Club. Pooling your order with them will amortize that hazmat cost into nothing more than a minor annoyance.

 

[rfd]

Gubermint regs have all but quashed yer LGS from stocking the holy black. It's very feasible that mail order will be their next target. If yer in this game for life, and have barrels to feed, stock up as soon as you can. For the addicted (c'est moi!) a 25 or 50 pound carton is the way to go. Pony up now, and be a fat cat in the years to come.

 

[MrTom]

Here in Minnesota it seems that all black powder is sold in only a couple places, one of which is a Track of the Wolf in the Twin Cities. That's about a 95 mile drive for me. I' shoot BH209 while hunting and T7 at the range, but I do have a couple older sidelocks that I'd shoot if true black was easier to find. I've checked with gunshops and gunsmiths within 50 miles of home and none carry the true black due to storage requirements. Pyrodex and Triple Seven is all over around me, both in pellet form and granular. White Hots and the Star T7 are both easily found.

Last year #11 caps were an easy find. This year I haven't seen a tin anywhere.

 

[SDK]

Thank you for all the great replies and information. I’m going to look into buying some bigger lots and check to see if there is a local NMLRA Charter Club.

 

[Squeeze]

the main difference in powders (real black in different brands) come from what wood was used in the charcoal making. This is what causes the difference in the consistency of the fouling between brands. Some are drier, some more gummy. They are very similar otherwise, and consistency is pretty similar for all the standard brands. Top shelf like Swiss is always better on almost every level, but the average guy would never be able to tell. Typical hunters, who shoot ML basically just yearly sight check and hunting, maintaining shots and ranges within their capabilities are basically OK with anything. Long range guys, competition shooters and perfectionists will always go for the best. Its kind of a return on investment thing.