Why does my POI rise?

[michiganmuzzy]

I spent a couple hours at the range yesterday and have a problem that i cant seem to fix. At 100yd my POI climbs and moves left. Still a fair group but i do it with almost every gun i own.
Knight .45 w/346gr gould and Accura .45. With 200gr XTP. I covered a few hits but its always the same.




This was 50yd with the Knight as i made some scope adjustments.

I was shooting a Knight Super Disc 45 80grv bh209/346grn gould lead bullet. and an Accura .45 with 90grv bh209 and a 200xtp in lbcr sabot. Using a Caldwell Rock jr front rest and no rear rest and a modified PAST shoulder pad. Hardly feel any recoil but im sure that its causing this.
Ive seen somewhere an explanation of what this means but cant find it again.

 

[HC]

Mirage, I’d imagine.

 

[Fyrstyk]

Fouling build up in the barrel?

 

[gle3105]

Multiple causes but I’d pay attention to shoulder & buttstock position being repetitive. Foream hold. Everything the same. Cheek weld pressure on stock. Then after all that notice how the piece recoils.
Thoughts just to start.

 

[Mnt monkey]

Do you use a rear hold and a bag in a front rest? or are you reaching out and grabbing the forearm of the rifle. I think if I saw the pattern developing in two or three rifles I would try or experiment withholding the rifle a little bit different just me,, being a man of smaller statue shooting heavy recoil I find a often have to rediscipline my shooting techniques down to the little details,, sometimes it's not so much that I've changed how I shoot I just catch myself doing something slightly different not even visually following through the way I should and all of a sudden I've developed a pattern in my shooting that's not right, and it seems to have subtly snuck up on me..

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Heres a edited pic showing groups

I will pay more attn to my hold next trip. I use a front rest and rear hold. I touch nothing fwd of the trigger.

Could be fouling, or barrel heat, im using bh209 in the MLs. But i also do it with a 450BM Ruger and a 30-30 Marlin and an SML with 4198. Thats why i believe its me causing it.

 

[Mnt monkey]

I've had little patterns like that in my own shooting over the years ,, come over next weekend and we'll shoot,, maybe sometime if you got a friend you shoot with it's really a good shooter then I would have him stand off behind me a little bit to the side and just observe how I reacted to the recoil and just the whole motion of the rifle going off I know often I can help friends standing behind them just to the side slightly

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I have a friend who could come watch me. He only shoots pistols but i will take him.

 

[Mnt monkey]

I use a rear bag in a front rest and I wrap my arm around and pinch the bag much like a benchrest shooter would but when I start to notice the problem you're having and I've had it too I'll reach forward and grab the front of the rifle stock and anchor down something like you see hankins doing in his videos

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I rarely use a rear bag because i wouldnt have one hunting. I have a LeadSled use it for working on rifles. I may take that to the range next time.

 

[Mnt monkey]

I really appreciate this post because I think there's a lot of guys shooting the break actions especially new shooters that have this problem and really never realized they have this problem, I think many beginners rifles are a lot more accurate than they can shoot

 

[Mnt monkey]

If it were me besides trying to focus on how I held the rifle I would really be obsessed with that visual follow through as you're pulling the trigger

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Mirage, I’d imagine.

I do shoot til the barrel gets quite warm. But not what i consider hot(+100°). I shoot at a covered range on a solid wooden bench. Lots of trees and shade.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I went looking at old target pics. Occasionally i get better groups. I didnt record which guns or loads these were. All should be at 100yd iirc.

 

[deermanok]

I know that for me, especially when shooting my crossbow, if I cant the bow even slightly, my shots will go a bit high right or left. Usually I don't even notice that I did it.

 

[Mnt monkey]

I have a lot more trouble with the thumb hole stock which a lot of people seem to love,, to me thumb hole stocks on heavy recoil rifles on the bench are difficult to shoot groups with ,,I find that where my index finger and thumb fit into the thumb hole it seems real easy to teeter at the moment of pulling the trigger either slightly left or right,, I noticed this more on thumbhole stocks than I do traditional open grip stocks. I know it's just my body I know other people that love those stocks,, I cut my teeth as a Young Man shooting open grip stocks and really just got used to it I've never felt comfortable with a thumb hole or a McMillan A5 vertical grip,, I do really put a lot of tension in the shoulder behind my gun when I'm shooting muzzleloaders or heavy recoil,, and I over exaggerate my follow through visually as I pull the trigger,, it works for me I think as all of us shoot we develop some little odd fine tuning in our own technique and something that seems so simple really is not,, recoil signature and the control of it happened so fast,, consistently handling it the same shot after shot takes focus doesn't it!! Most of my heavier recoil 45 smokeless rifles I take the brakes off and just shoot them and try to deal with the recoil,, I've sure learned one thing if I don't manage it it manages me. When I used to shoot bench rest I was fast loader and shooter,, I could kind of put my mind in the moment and get five rounds off so quick most of the other competitors would be on their second round and I would have my five for group shot,, doesn't work with a muzzleloader I've had to retrain a lot of what was ingrained in me,, have enjoyed every moment still learning

 

[sheriffjohn]

Taught combat pistol for over 25 years. Vertical strings are attributed to breath control in that world of timed fire. Improperly bedded rifle barrels walk as the barrel heats up.

If everything's done the same way, every shot, I suggest letting the barrel go stone cold between shots and see what happens. In the deer woods, the shot that counts most likely will be from a cold barrel.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Heres a edited pic showing groups
View attachment 16760
I will pay more attn to my hold next trip. I use a front rest and rear hold. I touch nothing fwd of the trigger.

Could be fouling, or barrel heat, im using bh209 in the MLs. But i also do it with a 450BM Ruger and a 30-30 Marlin and an SML with 4198. Thats why i believe its me causing it.

Two things you can try........... 1- use a rear bag or support. 2- Stop gripping around the stock with your thumb. You can't put the same pressure each time, so try laying your thumb on the side or top and not grip the rifle. Let the barrel cool more.

 

[Pike40]

Tight spot on the barrel? In my experience with centerfire rifles, if the group walks as the barrel heats up it has been related to this. As already mentioned, try letting the barrel cool down between shots, if your pattern improves, might be the culprit.

 

[DANNY-L]

A canted scope will do that.