Woodman Arms Patriot .45 - talk me down off this ledge!

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LHR

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Nov 30, 2021
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Hello everyone, new here.
So I have been on the hunt for a new muzzle loader in a .45 cal for some time, but have not decided which route to go yet. Then I recently came across the Woodman Arms Patriot and It has my full attention right now.
In Utah we cannot hunt with smokeless powder, and the Patriot was designed around Blackhorn209 which is my preferred substitute powder.
This would be a hunting rifle first and a steel banger for fun!

I understand that with a breech plug change in the .45 I can shoot smokeless should I choose to do so. I love the versatility of that. One of the options is a 1-20 twist Brux which is the way I’m leaning. Also could go with a 1-18 or 1-24 twist 24” length McGowen. The Brux is 28” but I would want to cut it down some and Mark indicated to me that he would be willing to make a 26” version which seems just about right. Cost around $1,000.

I really want to try full bore .45 bullets and want good accuracy out to 400 yards. But most of my hunting shots are inside of 200 yards with 20 yards common. I like to spot / stalk / track mule deer & elk in the thick pinion and juniper we have out here. So mostly close, but often there are cross canyon opportunities that present.

Anyway, is my logic sound or am I crazy?
 

Cattledog

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Jan 11, 2008
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I have a Patriot in .45, you will love the rifle for hunting. Fit and finish are outstanding. I am not sure I would use it as a steel banger at 400 yards. To me that is just a different type of rifle, typically heavier than the 5 to 6 pounds as the Patriot sits. As a hunting rifle, I would go for it.
 

Mnt monkey

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I have two patriots they're excellent spot in stock rifles ,, very well made, very well finished, both of my rifles are excellent shooters, I have shot bore riders, but I ended up using light blue sabot and 40 cal bullets,, I agree with cattle dog I don't know that I would consider them a 400 yard weapon.
 
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Cant talk you down off the ledge, but i can push you off it.
One of his Patriots is on my short list of (hopefully not too distant) future guns.
Just get it. If you dont like it i know you'll be able to sell it fast. I never see them up for sale, if that is any indication of their quality and peoples satisfaction tith them.
 

HC

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Jan 15, 2016
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Cant talk you down off the ledge, but i can push you off it.
One of his Patriots is on my short list of (hopefully not too distant) future guns.
Just get it. If you dont like it i know you'll be able to sell it fast. I never see them up for sale, if that is any indication of their quality and peoples satisfaction tith them.
A wee bit of “Enabler assistance “ just kicked in.
 

Mnt monkey

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I've become a big fan of that five to seven pound rifle scoped and ready to hunt with,, for me it even is a better weight class rifle in a deer stand, whether you're in a box or up in a tree on a platform, a light rifle gets up into the window and points much quicker than a 12 lb target rifle like a Paramount , now what I look for though is a walking rifle a lightweight rifle that shoots with the accuracy of a heavier barrel target rifle I think you have that in the Patriot!
 

LHR

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Nov 30, 2021
Messages
94
I have a Tikka Superlite that is similar in weight and it is good to 600 yards. I know they are different animals, but I feel like it is workable and shooting to 400 would be just for fun practice but would not happen all that often.
I have a Patriot in .45, you will love the rifle for hunting. Fit and finish are outstanding. I am not sure I would use it as a steel banger at 400 yards. To me that is just a different type of rifle, typically heavier than the 5 to 6 pounds as the Patriot sits. As a hunting rifle, I would go for it.
 

LHR

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Nov 30, 2021
Messages
94
Thanks for the nudge !
Cant talk you down off the ledge, but i can push you off it.
One of his Patriots is on my short list of (hopefully not too distant) future guns.
Just get it. If you dont like it i know you'll be able to sell it fast. I never see them up for sale, if that is any indication of their quality and peoples satisfaction tith them.
 

LHR

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Nov 30, 2021
Messages
94
Seems I have found just what I am looking for. The Paramount turns me off for those reasons. And I just like to be different, and I doubt out here in the west I will run into another hunter with a Patriot.
I've become a big fan of that five to seven pound rifle scoped and ready to hunt with,, for me it even is a better weight class rifle in a deer stand, whether you're in a box or up in a tree on a platform, a light rifle gets up into the window and points much quicker than a 12 lb target rifle like a Paramount , now what I look for though is a walking rifle a lightweight rifle that shoots with the accuracy of a heavier barrel target rifle I think you have that in the Patriot!
 

LHR

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Nov 30, 2021
Messages
94
I had messaged Mark or who ever answers those and he said that a 26" Brux would be possibly in the works come December if I wanted to try it. I would then get the 24" ramrod for it and add a spinjag loader to that.
Patriot will build you a 28 in 1-18 twist Brux barrel model if you ask him if I was wanting to do what you're talking about that's the gun I would get from him
 

GM54-120

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Well, i can tell you from first hand experience. My New Ultra Light Arms model 20 thumps good shooting just a [email protected]+. On paper the ballistics are good but making it pan out in THE REAL WORLD is rough in a rifle that light....Its not so much about "can the rifle do it" and more about "can you do it in a hunting situation" without a sled.
 

LHR

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Nov 30, 2021
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Well, i can tell you from first hand experience. My New Ultra Light Arms model 20 thumps good shooting just a [email protected]+. On paper the ballistics are good but making it pan out in THE REAL WORLD is rough in a rifle that light....Its not so much about "can the rifle do it" and more about "can you do it in a hunting situation" without a sled.
I agree completely, and may have to load down to be able to tolerate. I can take a pretty good beating and still shoot decent, but I have my limits too !
 

GM54-120

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There are some nice new 40cal bullets with well over .300 BC. While using sabots is a step backwards they are still an option for a flatter shooting bullet that needs less speed to get you there. Just compare a Fury 40cal 240gr OT at 2500fps with a claimed BC of .360 vs what you get shooting a 275gr sabotless.

Just the recoil takes a big drop
Recoil Velocity:21.0 ft/sRecoil Energy:41.1 ft•lbs
 

LHR

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Nov 30, 2021
Messages
94
There are some nice new 40cal bullets with well over .300 BC. While using sabots is a step backwards they are still an option for a flatter shooting bullet that needs less speed to get you there. Just compare a Fury 40cal 240gr OT at 2500fps with a claimed BC of .360 vs what you get shooting a 275gr sabotless.

Just the recoil takes a big drop
Recoil Velocity:21.0 ft/sRecoil Energy:41.1 ft•lbs
Very good point, and coincidently that 40 cal, 240gr. bullet would still be legal (meets minimum requirement )to hunt elk with in Utah. Would you consider that bullet Elk worthy ?
 

GM54-120

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I cant imagine its any worse than a 45cal 275gr. Just look at the sectional density numbers. The 240gr 40cal is higher. The Fury is a bonded jacket bullet made for SML loads.

0.213 vs 0.193
 

LHR

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Nov 30, 2021
Messages
94
I have a Patriot in .45, you will love the rifle for hunting. Fit and finish are outstanding. I am not sure I would use it as a steel banger at 400 yards. To me that is just a different type of rifle, typically heavier than the 5 to 6 pounds as the Patriot sits. As a hunting rifle, I would go for it.
If you don't mind sharing, I would be interested in what loads your using in yours and what kind of speed & accuracy your seeing.
 

LHR

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Joined
Nov 30, 2021
Messages
94
I have two patriots they're excellent spot in stock rifles ,, very well made, very well finished, both of my rifles are excellent shooters, I have shot bore riders, but I ended up using light blue sabot and 40 cal bullets,, I agree with cattle dog I don't know that I would consider them a 400 yard weapon.
Mnt monkey if you don't mind sharing, I would be interested in your experience with full bore bullets and why you chose to go sabot ? Also, what are your loads looking like ?
 

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