Your thoughts on a maximum weight bullet for a TC .45Hawken, 1-48 twist?

[koger]

I have used some formulas that say a 300gr+ slug wont shoot well, but I have shot some that heavy made by Buffalo Bullet co, and they shot great, cloverleafs at 50 yds. Not a big fan of the lee Real bullet for several reasons I wont bother you with. If you know of a mold, that casts a slug as described, and have first hand knowledge of shooting same in a TC.45, 1-48 twist, please let me know. I am also thinking of ordering a proud .44 slug mold, and paper patching it.

 

[Idaholewis]

I have used some formulas that say a 300gr+ slug wont shoot well, but I have shot some that heavy made by Buffalo Bullet co, and they shot great, cloverleafs at 50 yds. Not a big fan of the lee Real bullet for several reasons I wont bother you with. If you know of a mold, that casts a slug as described, and have first hand knowledge of shooting same in a TC.45, 1-48 twist, please let me know. I am also thinking of ordering a proud .44 slug mold, and paper patching it.

I have a ton of .45 Cal Bullet Choices, From 188 Grains, to 540, everything in between in 25 Grain increments. But I don’t own a single stock 48 Twist Rifle, All of mine are Fast, from 18 to 30 Twist. I have 3 Different Pistol bullets that i bet would shoot STELLAR in a 1:48 Twist .45

These would be my first Choices to try, this bullet weighs right at 300 Grains

These are 250 Grain

I would be really Curious how the Lyman Gould would do in a Stock 1:48 Twist .45 Cal? I pour this Bullet both Hollow Point, and Solid, 350 Grains Hollow point, to 360ish Solid. Here is the Gould in the middle with the Bullet in the first photo on each side

Bullet on the Left might be another Good one, 250-260 Grains, Nice wide Meplat. I also have 2 different Maxi Designs for .45 Cal, This one is the Rounded Lube Groove

Bullet on the left being Lightest i have at 188 Grains

 

[Idaholewis]

Those are my Lighter weights that should work well in a Stock 1:48 Twist? But i am guessing here, as stated above I don’t Own, nor have i tested these MYSELF in a 1:48 Twist. But I did send a Guy in Louisiana the Bottom photo Bullets, He shoots a Slower Roundball Twist .45 Cal, He reported back with GREAT success, He killed his Deer with them. Pdugas, He is a Forum member here

I have MANY more Bullets from here that keep going up in Weight, From Grease Groove to Paper Patch.

 

[Saxtonyoung]

45 Caliber is one of those bullets where there is a lot of readily available molds available without breaking the bank. I would tend to believe that the lighter pistol bullets would be best suited for the 1-48" twist but that's just speculation on my part.

 

[Idaholewis]

45 Caliber is one of those bullets where there is a lot of readily available molds available without breaking the bank. I would tend to believe that the lighter pistol bullets would be best suited for the 1-48" twist but that's just speculation on my part.

I agree Sax, BUT I have been amazed a LOT of times of how well certain Bullets do in Certain Twists, when in theory they shouldn’t do well at all, Math Says that they Shouldn’t. My 1:20 Twist Rice Barrel shoots these little 250-260 Grain bullets measuring .640 and .695 long just as well as it does my Bigger 1” Plus Bullets, So far this Rice Barrel has shot every Bullet i have tried in it extremely well! The only bullets i have not shot in this Rice Barrel as of yet are my very biggest, Elliptical and Money Designs

Same thing goes with my Fast Twist .50 Cals, And .54s, They Shoot my little short Lyman Plains .85 long (Shortest .54 bullet i own) Every bit as good as most of my Custom made Molds for Both .50 and .54 Cals, Go figure

I have no doubt in The Green Hill, etc. etc. Numbers/Math working, but it comes in to play at MUCH longer Ranges than the Average Joe Guy with his Muzzleloader is Gonna EVER attempt to Shoot, At normal open sight Muzzleloader ranges of 100-150 Yards i have found the Formulas to mean VERY VERY little

 

[Saxtonyoung]

Formulas like Greenhill let you know a suggested twist rate for a particular bullets makeup that includes its weight, shape and legnth. It's generally ok to shoot a particular bullet in a faster twist barrel than suggested although you may need to reduce the powder charge. Where things get a little tricky is when your trying to stabilize a bullet that longer than suggested for a particular twist.

 

[koger]

Thanks for all the replies gents! I have 7 45/70 molds, such as the Goulds 350 Hp is what I really want, but the land to land is .440 I believe on the TC .45 barrel, so I would need to size them close to .443-445, I think to use them. I have .458, and .452,.451sizers, can you size a bullet down that much without going thru 3-4 sizers, hence my question about the paper patch of a .300gr 44mag slug.I also like the lee 300 grain slug with the wide meplat, .452 diameter.

 

[Idaholewis]

Formulas like Greenhill let you know a suggested twist rate for a particular bullets makeup that includes its weight, shape and legnth. It's generally ok to shoot a particular bullet in a faster twist barrel than suggested although you may need to reduce the powder charge. Where things get a little tricky is when your trying to stabilize a bullet that longer than suggested for a particular twist.

I have only tried that Scenario 1 time (Longer bullet in a slower Twist) It was with my Green Mountain LRH 1:30 Twist .45 Cal, And bullets from my Buffalo Arms Elliptical Mold, Bullet is 542 Grains, and Measures 1.415” Long, My 1:30 Twist Shot these BIG bullets STELLAR Good! That rifle has shot nearly everything i have tried in it from Good, to REALLY good, But For Some reason it did NOT like the little 250-260 Grain bullets above? But The much Faster 1:20 Twist Rice Barrel Shot them SUPER good? Which is Backasswards, But that is how it panned out. I tried many different Combos, From OP Wads to Large Powder Charge Changes, I finally gave up trying to get the Little Bullets to Shoot in my 1:30, Remember all of that last Summer? I had it posted here, Results were not good at all! Then this Faster 1:20 Twist Rice .450 Bore shoots these little light Bullets like a Laser, it made no Sense?

 

[Idaholewis]

Thanks for all the replies gents! I have 7 45/70 molds, such as the Goulds 350 Hp is what I really want, but the land to land is .440 I believe on the TC .45 barrel, so I would need to size them close to .443-445, I think to use them. I have .458, and .452,.451sizers, can you size a bullet down that much without going thru 3-4 sizers, hence my question about the paper patch of a .300gr 44mag slug.I also like the lee 300 grain slug with the wide meplat, .452 diameter.

Your TC .45 Cal should be in the .450-.452 Range Land to Land, I have never heard of a .45 Cal being anywhere near that tight? My Lyman Gould Bullet drops at .458, For Target/Bench shooting i size them Down as far as .449 to “Bore ride” in my Rice 1:20 Twist which has a .450 Bore, But For hunting i want a tight fit, and Size to .452, When poured of 1-40 Alloy these Hold my .451 Bore GM LRH 1:30 Twist ROCK SOLID. The Gould is a DARN Good shooting bullet in both my 1:20, and 1:30 Twist. There are a LOT of folks on here that have STELLAR luck with the Gould Bullet, I cannot think of anyone that hasn’t had good luck with this Bullet?

Both of these Targets were shot with my 1:30 Twist GM LRH Barrel

And this was from my 1:20 Twist Rice “Drop in” Barrel

 

[Saxtonyoung]

Like you stated earlier Lewis, sometimes the math just doesn't tell the whole story. If ever was just cut and dry we wouldn't want to experiment as much as we do.

 

[Idaholewis]

Like you stated earlier Lewis, sometimes the math just doesn't tell the whole story. If ever was just cut and dry we wouldn't want to experiment as much as we do.

Sax, i fully agree! I enjoy tinkering with stuff, more times that not i have been pleasantly surprised with Bullets that the Math didn’t line up with the Twist Rate.
I didn’t try the Big Long 1.415” Elliptical bullet beyond 100 yards in my 1:30 Twist, But up to that point accuracy was VERY good, But I have no doubt this big long bullet would start acting up at longer distances in the 1:30 Twist. I had this Bullet Mold made for my 1:18 Twist 32” Long Green Mountain Barrel, Which shows it to be VERY Stable, and is a Common bullet used in this Twist to 1,000 Yards

 

[koger]

Thanks again guys, you might be right about the land to land, will check it tomorrow and get back to you. I have a GM/45 LRH, new never fired, will check the land to land, on it while I am at it. How many sizing dies do you go thru, from .458-.452?

 

[Idaholewis]

Thanks again guys, you might be right about the land to land, will check it tomorrow and get back to you. I have a GM/45 LRH, new never fired, will check the land to land, on it while I am at it. How many sizing dies do you go thru, from .458-.452?

There’s just no Way that Bore is .440, I cannot see that even being a Remote Possibility?? I will bet they both end up in the .450, to .452 Range Land to Land (otherwise known as “Bore Diameter”), The Groove Diameter should be around .458 in Both Barrels. Of the 3 .45 Cal Fast Twist Barrels i own they are as Follows .450 Bore (Rice 1:20 Twist) .451 Bore (GM LRH 1:30 Twist) and .452 Bore (GM 32” 1:18 Twist)

I size my bullets in 1 Step, Lube is the KEY! From .458 down to .452 With a Pre lubed Die, and Bullet they will go through the die effortlessly, i could easily pull my Press handle with 1 Finger. If you don’t use lube you will have Problems in a HURRY! To much lube is better than Not Enough. You will be amazed at how effortless the Sizing process is with proper lube. I own .449, .450, .451, .452, .454 Sizers, But I have NEVER seen the Need to take Steps in Sizing, Again Well Lubed is KEY! I Roll them across a Well Lubed RCBS Case Lube Pad, With RCBS Lube Designed for the Pad, Before you Screw the Die down, Use a Q Tip and Wipe some Lube inside the Sizer Die “Sizing Ring” of the Die (This is what i call Pre lubing the Die) This is Only needed 1 time. Then just push the Lubed Bullet, after Lubed bullet Through.
Here is another way to do it, This way you Kill 2 birds with 1 Stone. Pan Lube Directly from the Mold, Extract them, and Run them through your .452 Sizer, You now have a Perfectly Sized, and Lubed Bullet ready To load in your Rifle

 

[James Sparhawk]

I have only tried that Scenario 1 time (Longer bullet in a slower Twist) It was with my Green Mountain LRH 1:30 Twist .45 Cal, And bullets from my Buffalo Arms Elliptical Mold, Bullet is 542 Grains, and Measures 1.415” Long, My 1:30 Twist Shot these BIG bullets STELLAR Good! That rifle has shot nearly everything i have tried in it from Good, to REALLY good, But For Some reason it did NOT like the little 250-260 Grain bullets above? But The much Faster 1:20 Twist Rice Barrel Shot them SUPER good? Which is Backasswards, But that is how it panned out. I tried many different Combos, From OP Wads to Large Powder Charge Changes, I finally gave up trying to get the Little Bullets to Shoot in my 1:30, Remember all of that last Summer? I had it posted here, Results were not good at all! Then this Faster 1:20 Twist Rice .450 Bore shoots these little light Bullets like a Laser, it made no Sense?

What would be a good bullet for my 1:60 twist, 32 inch barrel, Lyman Great Plains?

 

[Idaholewis]

What would be a good bullet for my 1:60 twist, 32 inch barrel, Lyman Great Plains?

That 1:60 SLOOOOOOW Twist is a Patched Roundball Twist, That doesn’t mean it won’t shoot a Bullet ok? But it’s DEFINITELY NOT the Correct Twist for it

If i were to try a Bullet in a Roundball Twist Barrel such as you ask about here, I would Try something like these Hornady PA Conicals, Something like this is gonna be your best Bet

 

[James Sparhawk]

That 1:60 SLOOOOOOW Twist is a Patched Roundball Twist, That doesn’t mean it won’t shoot a Bullet ok? But it’s DEFINITELY NOT the Correct Twist for it

If i were to try a Bullet in a Roundball Twist Barrel such as you ask about here, I would Try something like these Hornady PA Conicals, Something like this is gonna be your best Bet

Yea, I was thinking about trying these for it. I will get me a box of them to try.