Long distance inline

Hey all,

I've been shooting traditional for several years now and would like to get into my first inline for hunting in open country where 200 yard shots are the norm. I have been looking at the traditions vortek ldr and cva accura 2. Both of these look and feel great, I was just trying to figure out which may be more inherently accurate at longer ranges.
I also just bumped into a new tc omega with weather shield and camo stock and factory scope for $300. I wasn't considering that model, but the pricetag has me curious if this is an option. I'm sure the scope would need to go, as it didn't look very good.
Also, what is the best scope option? Do I need to get the leupold optic for what I am trying to accomplish?
Thank you for your help.

Most in lines will do OK at 200 yard. Scope doesn't need to be anything fancy neither. However, beyond that, does require a sweeter set up.

I have all 3 brands but none of the rifles you mention. If they still make the Traditions like they did the Pursuit XLT (only muzzy i have sold), I would not purchase that rifle, it will most likely not hold up for as long as you want it too, frame material is too soft IMO. Also, IIRC, they have no primer bushing (for adjustments and to prevent primer wear) where the firing pin comes out but I haven't looked at Traditions in a while to be positive.

My CVA Apex and Knight Disc Elite are my longer range rifles. I would not hesitate to take a 200yd shot with those if the conditions are right.

All my rifles are topped with Nikon Omegas, 3x9-40. I like the extra eye relief and for me, they seem to have good glass.

I did notice the Nikon had great eye relief with a BDC as well. I'm not sure which rifle it was setup on at cabelas, but I do remember liking that glass.

Ron,

What kind of setup is required beyond 200 yards? I would like to stay in the production muzzeloades if possible.

chickenmcnasty said:

I did notice the Nikon had great eye relief with a BDC as well. I'm not sure which rifle it was setup on at cabelas, but I do remember liking that glass.

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It's funny how alot of guys like the Nikon's, but neither my brother nor I have had any luck with them. They never held their zero. I'm currently shooting a CVA Optima topped with a Leupold VX2 3-9 x 40 with CDS and couldn't be happier. Now if only I could find a place to shoot further than 100yds...

David

My setup is a Knight 'Elite' in 45 cal with a Zeiss 3-9 Conquest scope. My chronograph gave a 2218 FPS average with a 195 grn Barnes bullet, 110 grn charge of B209, volume of course.

I really don't want to take a 200 yrd shot though. One of the most important steps would be to practice at the longer ranges, then make known the actual distance for longer shots while hunting. That would normally be done with a rangefinder. Just being off 40-50 yards estimation at the longer ranges is more an issue with a M-L, compared to a center-fire.

Also just located a new accura v2 camo with scope mount for $349. That seems like a good price

That rifle should shoot OK to 200 yard.

For 300 yard shots, a straight shooting 45 caliber is the easiest way to accomplish long ranges. However some states don't allow one to use a 45 loaded with sabot, for hunting. The most accurate rifle i own is an Omega 45 caliber, and it shoots 40 caliber 200g bullet in sabot accurately out beyond 300 yard. High magnification scopes aren't required, though they do help. Using only a 2-7 scope with a CDS dial, i can shoot 300 yard easy, and have shot accurately, as far as 1/4 mile.

With either of the CVA rifles, if you intend on shooting BH209, you'll need to change out the factory breech plug. Order one from CVA or from Western (BH209).

Purchase the best scope you can afford. I just sold a Pro Hunter that had a Nikon Monarch III, 2.5-10x50 that was as clear a scope as I've had. I currently use a Leupold VX6. Accurate and confident 200yd shooting takes a lot of rounds sent down range.

Ron,

The .45 would be legal in Kansas. My only reservation would be wind. That area is ALWAYS windy! Isn't wind drift more of a factor with the .45?

Well.. i hope i am not incorrect, but my understanding is wind drift is a function of the time of flight, and the ballistic coefficient of the bullet. The 200g SST/Shockwave bullets i am shooting in my 45 caliber rifle have a published BC of 0.265 if i remember correctly. The best flying bullets from a 50 caliber rifle are the 300 grainers, and they have a ballistic coefficient of about 0.250. The 200g bullets come out of my rifle at about 2250 fps. The 300g bullets come out of the 50 caliber rifles at about 1925 fps. You see then, the bullet from the 45 will spend less time in the wind than the bullet from the 50, and it also has a better BC.. thus the bullet from the 45 will have less wind drift than the bullet from the 50.

Myself, i hunt a lot on the 'Great Plains', and know a way too much about shooting rifles in the wind.



A fella from this forum sent me a pm, asking why i thought a 45 is a better long range rifle than the 50. One part of my answer is written above.



Another consideration is the recoil of the 300g bullets is noticeably more than the recoil of the 200g bullets. The less recoiling rifle is easier to shoot long range for most of us.

Another consideration is when the bullets flying to a far target slow down to the speed of sound. It is my understanding that when a bullet slows to the speed of sound or becomes 'transonic', it suffers buffeting from the air, and thus loses accuracy. Bullets from my 50 caliber rifles become transonic at about 300 yard. Bullets from my 45 caliber rifle become transonic beyond 400 yards. Not being a scientist, i cannot say whether or not this is really relevant. However i can say that i have never ever shot a real good group at 300 yards with my 50 caliber rifles, but i have shot many nice groups at 300 yard with a 45 caliber rifle.

Another factor which applies only to the 45 caliber Omega is it's barrel is far heavier than the barrels of my 50 caliber rifles because it has the same exterior dimension, but has a smaller hole. This could be one of the reasons this rifle is so accurate.

There's a difference in bullet energy at 300yds with the 300gr bullet over the 200gr. Also pushing up the velocity of a 300gr bullet to 2,100 gives it a better advantage than 1,925fps. Yes its additional recoil but, I've never felt the recoil when firing at an animal.

300 yard comparison:
The 200gr .265 BC bullet traveling at 2250fps, has 927fpe and time of flight is approximately .50 seconds. 17.5" of wind drift @ 10mph - 90°

The 300gr .250 BC bullet traveling at 2,100fps, has 1,138fpe and time of flight is approximately .54 seconds. 21" of wind drift @ 10mph - 90°
Slowing the 300gr bullet down to 2,000fps, it adds one (1") additional inch of wind drift, to 22".

It takes a lot of rounds sent to be proficient at 300yds, even in calm winds.

45 cal. Black Powder, 525gr bullet, coeff .38, mv 1350 still has 1000fps & 1000ft/lbs at over 500 yards!
That's the load the winner of the NMLRA In-line Championship shot.

52Bore said:

45 cal. Black Powder, 525gr bullet, coeff .38, mv 1350 still has 1000fps & 1000ft/lbs at over 500 yards!
That's the load the winner of the NMLRA In-line Championship shot.

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That's some shoot'n with over 213" (17 feet) of drop at 500yds. Wind drift at 90° and 10mph would have been in excess of 40". That's great shooting by who ever shot that match. :yeah:

This is great info to have. I'm grateful that you guys have the numbers to back it up.
With all this being said, which of these production guns is best suited?
Is the bergara barrel all it's cracked up to be? Or is it better to get the 30" barrel this getting the higher velocity? Is the t/c omega even in the same ballpark as the accura and vortek ldr?

First 3 places at the 500 yard any gun match at the NMLRA Championships shot 45 cal Knight's 1:20 with Black Powder and 500+ gr bullets.
Good scope is critical for elevation and windage changes - repeatability. The load has to work in the gun!

52Bore said:

First 3 places at the 500 yard any gun match at the NMLRA Championships shot 45 cal Knight's 1:20 with Black Powder and 500+ gr bullets.
Good scope is critical for elevation and windage changes - repeatability. The load has to work in the gun!

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But aren't these highly customized with a lot of money invested? I'm just a guy with a stay at home wife and 3 kids. I just want to pop a deer at 200 and maybe over. I just don't have the money to invest in state of the art equipment at the moment.

Depends on what you want to do and what you feel is expensive?
Knights can be found for far less than an Ultimate.
Contact Knight and ask for a 1:20, they use to make them.
Your post started at Long Distance Inline - depends on your perspective of Long Distance.

52Bore said:

Depends on what you want to do and what you feel is expensive?
Knights can be found for far less than an Ultimate.
Contact Knight and ask for a 1:20, they use to make them.
Your post started at Long Distance Inline - depends on your perspective of Long Distance.

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Honestly, I would like to try to stay in the $500 range. I probably didn't do a good job of stating my goals to begin with. I would just like something that will be minute of Bambi at 200-250 max. I think anytime you get over 200 yards it gets dicey and requires high dollar optics to make things happen. Unfortunately I just don't have room in my budget to support the family and my hobbies!