50 cal bore size recommendations

[Idaholewis]

GM54-120 As excited as those White rifle owners are about their guns makes me want one too... I'm going to have to have a Super 91.
I didn't know they were 1:24. I hear Brux is a great barrel. Is .500x510 still considers a shallow groove?
THX !

52 bore Did you cut off the QLA? I think a lot of people would love to shoot as awesome as you! Wow and THX !

Idaholewis NO scope on this gun... I want #11 percussion on a ss fast twist gun.
I will try s&w500 or 492 buffalo bullets with a wad and either Pyrodex pistol powder or maybe Swiss.
I have a Williams sight and Lee shavers insert ordered and in the mail as we post.
My latest purchase was my Omega and it had Williams peep sights on it and I love shooting that sight.
As for my shooting ability, I think I can hold my own on a bench.
I stopped at the pawn shop today when I was in Bemidji but they only had an old springfield hawkens and a Connecticut plunger gun.
THX !
viking

Viking, Does your rifle have the QLA Muzzle? If so that is a bummer in my opinion, I really dislike/distrust those things! I have seen some WILD stuff happen with Stock 1:48 Twist TC Barrels that have the QLA muzzle. With these slip fit Paper Patched bullets you really need a good OP Wad to seal the gasses behind the bullet, the Hard card type OP Wads (Vege Fibre) showed the worst Craziness in the stock 48 twist QLA muzzles from my experience/testing, and Wool felt OP wads did the best, Stil not great, but light years better than the Hard card. From my understanding that Muzzle is best suited for Sabots? Hard Cast bullets and Sabots from Harvester might shoot well in your rifle if it has that muzzle? I have 1 bullet that I think would shoot ok in a QLA muzzle, or at least stand the best chance? That is the bullet i had copied from the .504 Bullshop bullet, That Bullet would make an AWESOME Idaho hunting bullet!! You can order those from Bullshop out of Montana. My advise would be to try them without an OP Wad, and then try with a Wool felt OP Wad. Again, in my experience/testing the Wool felt OP wads did the best from the QLA muzzles, The Bullshop bullet i Just mentioned should shoot well without the use of an OP Wad due to the large Band diameters. The 2 bottom bands are .504, 3rd is .506 and the Top is .507-.508, These bullets come pre lubed with Dan’s NASA lube which is some AWESOME stuff! With these bullets being Large they obviously load fairly tight, They will definitely stay put on the powder charge! These are TOP SHELF Grease Groove bullets, i liked the .50 so well that i had a similar GG bullet made for my .45, and .54 Cal.


Here is the Bullshop bullet


Here is a target i shot with the Bullshop bullets in my GM Stainless .50 LRH, i shot this 3 shot group and saved the 4th bullet to send to Tom at Accurate molds to have him duplicate it as close as he possibly could.

 

[Idaholewis]

I was trying to find another thread where i had helped a guy with the Bullshop bullet, and i ran across this one with 52bore, I believe the guy i was helping had an Encore? I remember He ended up having the QLA removed and was VERY happy with the results!

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=28874#p226450

 

[Idaholewis]

This is the guy i helped

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=30752#p244265

 

[Idaholewis]

https://dandtcustomgunworks.websitetool ... rs-7271169

 

[52Bore]

52 bore Did you cut off the QLA? I think a lot of people would love to shoot as awesome as you! Wow and THX !
viking

I didn't at first when I got it and tried sabot and lead bullet, this did OK - but when I wanted to shoot a 50cal PP - I had to cut it off because the QLA was causing my paper to strip off.
I recall indicating my barrel/bore in the lathe - the QLA was out of concentric by 0.003-0.004"
Here's the 500gr PP I made and shot in the Encore.

 

[viking]

52 bore .003-.004 seems like an extreme distance to be off.
I know you world class shooters are very meticulous.
I will shoot my encore to see if I can zero it in a little more, otherwise off goes the QLA on the encore and the omega. I have read a 17 deg crown works good.
Thanks for sharing your great experience and advice.
viking

Idaholewis Agreed..I cant find anywhere that someone is unhappy they removed the QLA.
Sure are some nice crowns out there.
I hope you don't mind if I pm you some time down the road with a question or two?
Thanks! viking

 

[Idaholewis]

52 bore .003-.004 seems like an extreme distance to be off.
I know you world class shooters are very meticulous.
I will shoot my encore to see if I can zero it in a little more, otherwise off goes the QLA on the encore and the omega. I have read a 17 deg crown works good.
Thanks for sharing your great experience and advice.
viking

Idaholewis Agreed..I cant find anywhere that someone is unhappy they removed the QLA.
Sure are some nice crowns out there.
I hope you don't mind if I pm you some time down the road with a question or two?
Thanks! viking

Viking, I dont mind a bit!

 

[Idaholewis]

Viking, I forgot to mention the Pedersoli Missouri River Hawken in .50 Cal, 6 Groove 1:24 Twist. If i were looking to buy a brand new Fast twist production sidelock Muzzleloader i would save up my coin and buy one of these.

 

[viking]

Thanks Idaholewis, I will research the Pedesoli.
I picked up 2 renegades today a 50 cal and a 54 cal.
Now I'm anxious to get started.
viking

 

[Idaholewis]

Thanks Idaholewis, I will research the Pedesoli.
I picked up 2 renegades today a 50 cal and a 54 cal.
Now I'm anxious to get started.
viking

Cool deal on the 2 Renegades!! Are they set triggers or single?

The Pedersoli Missouri River Hawken is on the spendy side, 1,200 for Walnut and 1,400 for Fancy maple. In my previous post i should have said ‘if i had it to do over’ i would probably have saved up the extra coin and bought the Pedersoli Missouri River Hawken. I was on about a 2 year Quest to find a fast twist .54 Cal, i was particularly looking for a Green Mountain .54 Cal LRH but i finally got tired of waiting/looking to find 1, it seemed like i was on a Snipe/Ghost hunt? I ended up buying a brand new Lyman Great Plains Hunter 1:32 fast twist in .54 Cal, I can’t say i regret the purchase as i have learned to really like the Lyman, but it did take awhile to grow on me, i had to make a few modifications to the rifle to get it where i liked it. The Lyman is a really good shooter!! So far it has shot everything i have tried in it very well, from Paper Patched to Grease Groove. Ironically, Not long after i bought the Lyman i ended up finding a brand new unfired Green Mountain LRH .54 Cal barrel and snatched it up IMMEDIATELY. The GM .54 LRH drop in barrels are a VERY rare bird!

The Lyman Great Plains Hunter is another rifle I forgot to mention, Idahoron has a friend that bought 1 in .50 Cal and it shoots the S&W 500 Paper Patched bullet every bit as good as the GM LRH barrels, that is the reason i went ahead and purchased one in .54 Cal. You can buy a Brand new Lyman Great Plains Hunter for just under 600 bucks. As you have probably learned there are very few options out there for fast twist ‘bullet shooter’ sidelocks, most are either 1:48 (for either bullet or Roundball, but not considered a master at either) or 1:66-1:70 Twist for dedicated Roundball. Pedersoli makes a couple of fast twist Sidelocks for bullets, but again on the spendy side. And then Lyman with the Great Plains Hunter .50 and .54 Cal both in 1:32 twist. The Lyman is really the only affordable fast twist ‘bullet shooter’ Sidelock in production today, at least that i know of? I have handled a few Pedersoli Muzzleloaders over the last few years and they are SUPER NICE! Had i of saved up and bought the Pedersoli Missouri River Hawken i am Confident i would have really liked it, or sure hope anyway! At this point I don’t see me ever buying one, i have every base WELL covered for ‘Bullet shooting’ Sidelocks.

 

[GM54-120]

Cabelas used to sell a Investarms Sporterized Hawkens 54cal 1-24 carbine
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas- ... Ntt=hawken

I think it might have been the model 150 here
http://www.investarm.com/eng-avancarica.html

 

[Idaholewis]

Cabelas used to sell a Investarms Sporterized Hawkens 54cal 1-24 carbine
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas- ... Ntt=hawken

I think it might have been the model 150 here
http://www.investarm.com/eng-avancarica.html

GM54-120, That is one that eluded me, I don’t remember ever seeing anything about that one? I owned a like new Cabelas Hawken in .58 Cal for awhile, it was made by Investarms, i think it was 1:48 Twist? It was awfully lightweight for a 58 Cal shooting bullets, Looking back I should have kept it and played with Patched Roundball in it. I ended up trading it for a TC Hawken .54 Cal that was also like new, i wanted the TC for the Stock, i used it for my 1:30 twist .45 Cal GM LRH Drop in barrel, That was the birth of my .45 ‘Hotrod Hawken’

 

[GM54-120]

The full size Sporterized version was a 1-48 when Cabelas had them. Only the carbines had the fast twist. Cabelas blew them out for $399 or less before they stopped carrying them. Retail was around $599 IIRC. It appears even the 45cal was a 1-24 in the carbine. Cabelas only had the 50 and 54 when i saw them.

 

[viking]

Idaholewis The Renegade in his picture had set trigger with a walnut stock. I'm not sure what the other one will look like until they arrive.
I started this thread to determine what twist, diameter bore and groove depth, and barrel length so I would know what I was ordering for a stainless steel barrel.
First barrel- 1:20 .500-508 32" for TC Renegade straight 1" octagon not tapered. Stainless steel.
Second - 1:20 .451-458 32" for TC Renegade " " " ". " ".

Anything else I need to know to order a barrel?
Will they ask about strength of stainless like smokeless quality or less?
I was considering Mcgowen. Of course they would have to make the BP too.
I know Rice and Oregon have barrels too, but I hadn't heard of them until I did a google search.

 

[Idaholewis]

Idaholewis The Renegade in his picture had set trigger with a walnut stock. I'm not sure what the other one will look like until they arrive.
I started this thread to determine what twist, diameter bore and groove depth, and barrel length so I would know what I was ordering for a stainless steel barrel.
First barrel- 1:20 .500-508 32" for TC Renegade straight 1" octagon not tapered. Stainless steel.
Second - 1:20 .451-458 32" for TC Renegade " " " ". " ".

Anything else I need to know to order a barrel?
Will they ask about strength of stainless like smokeless quality or less?
I was considering Mcgowen. Of course they would have to make the BP too.
I know Rice and Oregon have barrels too, but I hadn't heard of them until I did a google search.

I never advised a 1:20 anything? I’m not saying that 1:20 is bad, I said my experience is with 1:28 in .50 Cal, and 1:30 in .45 Cal, and i have had very good luck with Both. These Twists work, and work VERY well. There must be a decent reason that 1:28 is pretty much the standard in Fast Twist .50 Cals these days? If 1:20 was a bunch better i would think all of the Big Co’s would jump on that bandwagon and be turning out 1:20 Twist Rifles? But they aren’t. Years ago Green Mountain chose to Make the LRH Drop in series in 1:28 for their .50 and .54 Cal, And 1:30 for their .45 Cal? Simple fact is These twists have been proven to work very well.

I have a 3 TC Scout rifles that have 1:20 Twists, But I haven’t shot them enough to give an educated opinion on them, i was just recently asking about Sabot/Bullet combos for them in a thread i started in the Inline section

 

[viking]

Idaholewis I'm sorry if I misrepresented something you said. 52 bore said he had an English Sporting gun that was 1:20 and using 500gr conicals was very accurate to 300 yds. He suggested 1:20 through a 1:26. I just wanted ss because it cleans so much easier and they are rare for the Thompson with a fast twist. So I thought I would order a couple. I sure appreciate your thoughts on loads, lube, powder and wads. I probably would have just bought that Lyman Missouri River muzzy but no ss barrel. I did look for the GM ss barrel you had seen on ebay but could not find it. Thanks Viking.

 

[GM54-120]

X-Caliber also make SUPER affordable 1.250 blanks. Their 45cal 1-18 28" in 416R with 5R rifling is only $175. In 50cal they only offer a 1-20 twist though which IMO is a bit faster than is really needed.

McGowen offers octagon and the right twists but its an additional $227 for octagon. By the time you are done its nearly $500 for the barrel without a plug.

 

[viking]

GM54-120 Are stainless plugs available 1" and 15/16 ? I have looked several places including track of the wolf. Thx.viking

 

[GM54-120]

Im assuming that Green Mountain made some for their barrels. Other than that i have no idea. Im pretty much just into inlines.

 

[Idaholewis]

Viking, There is a brand new unfired Stainless Green Mountain .45 Cal LRH barrel on Gunbroker right now, I would ABSOLUTELY love to have it but just can’t justify buying another one. The guy knows what he has and isn’t giving it away by any means.