First time shooting .54 Gemer Hawkin, ball size, patches, etc...

[MTScott]

I'm a new owner of a Investarm Gemer hawkin .54 cal, 1:60 twist... actually I've had it since last fall.

It turns out, getting the rifle was the easiest part (once it was in stock). I did finally find some powder locally (Pyrodex RS - FFG equivolent).

Caps... well, I probably don't have to tell any of you whats going on there. I do have a buddy... that has a buddy, that he thinks he can get a can from, so I'm hoping for that.

Right now ordering RB ammo, and patches, and trying to decide what to go with. I'm open to ordering multiple types and seeing what works best.

I want to go with the hornady, but .535, or .530? Both?

Then what patch sizes? Also, I'd like to hear what you guys do for a process (trying different size balls with different patches, etc, until you know what is best for your gun). Also, are there different patch "types" I should consider. I'm all about what is effective and easy to use... this rifle is purely chosen to hunt during the Montana heritage season - I just need everything to work well.

I figured I'd start with 60gr powder, and work my way up to 100 until I find what works best... but I'd like to hear input there as well. I have a friend that has shot muzzle stuffers for years, so I'll go out with him the first time to dial the gun in.

 

[HC]

Sounds like you have a plan.

 

[deermanok]

I'd go with the .530 balls.
For patches, get a couple different sizes.
.010, .015, and maybe .018.
My own 54 goes best for me with 70 grains volume of 3f black powder.
530 ball and for patches I use square cut cotton material I got from a local fabric store. I don't have a way to measure it but I think it's somewhere in between .010 and .015.

 

[MTScott]

Sounds like you have a plan.

Oh, well, kind of... I was sort of hoping for everyone to give me part of the plan .

 

[MTScott]

I'd go with the .530 balls.
For patches, get a couple different sizes.
.010, .015, and maybe .018.
My own 54 goes best for me with 70 grains volume of 3f black powder.
530 ball and for patches I use square cut cotton material I got from a local fabric store. I don't have a way to measure it but I think it's somewhere in between .010 and .015.

Okay good info.

I like the homemade patches idea. Do you lube the patches with anything?

Also, what would 70 grains of 3F be equivalent to in 2F? What twist rate is your barrel?

 

[MTScott]

midway has .535 on clearance. 9.60 a box.... so, I bought both. I figured that was cheap enough to have them just to try.
I also orderd patches in .005, .010, and .015. So, I have powder, patches, and bullets. Just need caps.

Also, I need to put together a kit for carrying this stuff in the field, being ready to load, clean, etc. I'd like to find an all in one assembled kit, but I've only seen those for the .50 cal

 

[deermanok]

Okay good info.

I like the homemade patches idea. Do you lube the patches with anything?

Also, what would 70 grains of 3F be equivalent to in 2F? What twist rate is your barrel?

70 grains of 3f is about equal to 80-85 grains of 2f.
1/48 twist barrel.
For lube, it kinda depends on what I have in my box. I'll use good old spit patches mostly at the range.
I have some tubes of Wonderlube also and sometimes I use plain Crisco for a lube.

 

[drpatton]

I want to go with the hornady, but .535, or .530? Both?

Maybe this will help you.
I have several .54 Pedersoli made RB rifles. Dixie lists the ball size as .530 & Pedersoli lists it at .535. In truth, both will shoot, but I found it has a lot to do a lot with the powder I used. Swiss 1 1/2 Fg likes .535 with a .010 patch and Swiss 2Fg likes .530 with a .015 patch. I also used over the powder wads.

IMHO, you'll need to shoot both to see which gun and powder combination shoots the best.

BTW, all of my T/Cs like .530 with .015-0.018 patches.

 

[eekjellander]

Both my TC Renegades like a 530 -535 ball depending on patch thickness , from Jo Anns fabric store and I buy hole punch sets cheap @ Harbor Freight $15-20.00/ bear oil in both . 1-48 and 1-60 twist and have been using a Dura Felt wads over the powder , in case you choose wrong on patch thickness/material (it happens) ! And both go with 80-/90 grains OE 3F/Ed

 

[Wil]

I'd really try hard to find real black powder instead of that Pyrodex. That's where I would start. Learn good ways to clean that muzzy and use a good bore protectant oil for storage. My Dad tried that Pyrodex and now that rifle is just a wall hanger because of a badly rusted bore.

 

[MTScott]

I'd really try hard to find real black powder instead of that Pyrodex. That's where I would start. Learn good ways to clean that muzzy and use a good bore protectant oil for storage. My Dad tried that Pyrodex and now that rifle is just a wall hanger because of a badly rusted bore.

So... I just went down the pyrodex vs black powder corrosion rabbit hole. Thanks for that.

That debate is worse than oil debates on automotive forums .

 

[Wil]

So... I just went down the pyrodex vs black powder corrosion rabbit hole. Thanks for that.

That debate is worse than oil debates on automotive forums .

You'll have more fun when you ask about the best patch lube or the best rust inhibitor. Also, take it from this beekeeper, you will find many rabbit holes in that hobby as well.

 

[MTScott]

You'll have more fun when you ask about the best patch lube or the best rust inhibitor. Also, take it from this beekeeper, you will find many rabbit holes in that hobby as well.

Ooooh yeah. My dad is a beekeeper. I try not to get him going. I leave that hobby to him.

It seems that regardless of what I shoot, I need to have the cleaning game squared away, so, I gotta figure out what I need there.

 

[Wil]

By the way Scott, I have two of the Lyman Great Plains rifles that I built from a kit which are the same as the Gemmer Hawkens. I have a 50 cal. flint and a 54 cal. percussion. In my 54,I use a .530 ball and a .018 pillow ticking patch lubed with TOTW Mink Oil for deer hunting. I use a charge of 80 grains of 2f black powder ignited by a CCI #11 cap. I use 80 grs. of 3f in the 50 cal. with a .490 ball and .018 pillow ticking patch. Truthfully, I never even tried 3f in the 54 cal. but that will come as I would just rather buy one grade of powder from here on out. It depends if a 3f load in the 54 cal. will be as accurate as the 2f that I use.

 

[McClura]

MTScott, what size caps does you manual suggest? #10 or #11? I would start with the .530 ball an .010 patches to see how they start and shoot. I have 4 different .54 cal rifles, two long barrels, 42" and two 36". They all like the .535 with .010 patches. I shoot 50 grains of 3F Black Powder for playing at 25 & 50 yards . I shoot 80 grains at 100 yards with my sights, same setting for all distances. For hunting I shoot 90 grains of 3F Black Powder and .010 patch with .530 ball which is a little easier for second shot if I need to reload. For target competition I use the .535 ball and .010 patch but I have to short start with a rubber mallet and they shoot one cluster at 25 yards.
They are all flintlocks. I have taken two elk with my 36" barrel Hawken using the 90 grains of 3 F black powder and .530 round ball within 100 yds. I have taken many white tail deer, pigs, and a couple of javelina with the same load in my 42" barrels with same load. I built these rifles in the early 80's and they are still shooting the same load and just as accurate.
In one of my .54 Hawkins, a percussion, I loan for friends to try hunting. I use 90 grains of 777 powder, .530 ball, and .010 patches with #11 caps. It has taken a lot of deer, elk and pigs. The 777 powder shoots cleaner and easier to reload for my buddies that don't shoot much blackpowder. It has taken a couple of elk in CO when they didn't allow inlines. Unless they shoot it a lot, I just tell them to shoot it all they want and bring it back to me for cleaning. I don't want anyone to use brass brushes or other items that would mar the barrel.
Lube----that is a great question. Hunting I use TC Wonder lube, or some other commercial great type lubes.
When shooting competition or playing, I use my cleaning mixture for shooting and cleaning. Keeps the barrel clean and lubed
I make my own cleaner by the gallon and this will last about a year of shooting, usually around 1000 rounds in my rifles, pistols, musket and shotgun.
I use a gallon jug, empty, add 1 Cup of 409 Household cleaner, 1 cup of Water Soluble Cutting oil like used in power bandsaws and lathes, 1 cup of Ammonia , and fill the rest of jug with water, shake good. The recipe I got from a old shooter in the 70's and he called it Moose Milk. It will turn white when shaking. I use it for cleaning and I lube my patches with it when playing or competition. I keep two or three small bottles, like you get Contact Solution in. I keep a bottle in my shooting bag, one in my shooting boxes for the range stuff.
I shoot year round, hunting in cold weather and summer, competition year round and it works. I use the grease lube with hunting so it doesn't freeze and aids in loading. With this cleaner I never remove my barrels from the stocks. I clean my locks, barrels and wipe down the gun around the breech and then oil the barrel, stock and all.
I have been using a "Break Free CLP" lube, a cleaner, lubricant and preservative since the 80's. It helps repel moisture as well. When storing the guns, I lube the barrel, inside, outside and cover all of my muzzleloading stocks.n I even remove the locks and clean them, and put a light coat of this lube on them with Q-tips or soft toothbrush. It has never caused any problems to the finish on any gun I have. I use it for my modern firearms also. You can get it at most guns shops, on Amazon, or other online firearms related sites.
Like I mentioned, I have been shooting muzzleloaders since the mid 70's, hunting, competition all over the country and all of this works and I've had no reason to change. Good luck with your new hobby.

Mike

 

[exarcher]

I'd really try hard to find real black powder instead of that Pyrodex. That's where I would start. Learn good ways to clean that muzzy and use a good bore protectant oil for storage. My Dad tried that Pyrodex and now that rifle is just a wall hanger because of a badly rusted bore.

i bought swiss & schuetzen from "Traveler's Antiques" they are on facebook,, call em, they have plenty ( or did a month ago)..