GRRW Leman Indian Trade Rifle FOR SALE

[Muley Hunter]

Conner............Yes, he served his apprenticeship early, but if we're talking about his guns we can only count the ones with his name on them. That would be after he opened his own shop.

His Indian Rifle was more for the Indians during the later wars than the MM era which ended only a few years after he opened his shop.

This has gone off in sort of the wrong direction. My interest begins and ends with the MM era. Some say it's not that correct to have a Hawken if your reenacting the MM era. Of course, that's not true, but admittedly there weren't a lot of Hawken rifles owned by the MM.

Anyway, it's been an interesting discussion. Now, i'm off to hunt.

 

[Buck Conner1]

Conner............Yes, he served his apprenticeship early, but if we're talking about his guns we can only count the ones with his name on them. That would be after he opened his own shop.

His Indian Rifle was more for the Indians during the later wars than the MM era which ended only a few years after he opened his shop.

You need to look at this link Muley.  [url=http://furtradebooks.tripod.com/those.that.carried.htm]http://furtradebooks.tripod.com/those.that.carried.htm[/url]

Are you saying the date of 1837 (mid - era fur trade) to 1850 (late - fur trade) that these mountaineers with Hawkens like; Baker, Beckworth, Bent, Carson, Bridger, Charbonneau, Ferris, Johnson, Smith and others were late comers? Some were and many weren't. What about Black Beaver, Brown, Craig, Helm, Janis or Joseph Walker that carried marked Lemans?  Some collectors would be very unhappy after spending more money than most earn in a life time with your thoughts.

Look at the list and this is only a short list of thoses that carried either Hawken or Leman guns (many men were mid-period fur trade) now there guns are in collections today.  Stephen Meek is one example - born 1807, went to work for Sublette's Rocky Mountain Fur Company in 1827, worked for Bonneville in 1831. Later he is seen at Ft. Laramie in the 1840's, and later years in Siskiyoy CA. died in 1889. Many of these mountaineers had long interesting lives with the fur trade period just a small part of what and where they had traveled.

I agree that the Hawken rifle was late only because of the operation in St. Louis, Leman was building close to the beginning of the fur trade 1820 under another name, with marked gun (his name) in 1837 -mid fur trade and on.

"If one studies the whole fur trade era in North America you would find more military arms than custom built ones (Hawken, Leman and so on) made it to the mountains"....  "Many had no funds, they had their military musket from past service and just went to the mountains with whatever they had".... per Hanson - several of the 'Fur Trade Quarterlies'..
I'm not preaching history Muley (I know I'll be accused of such) :bounce: :afro:

The NW trade gun market started back in the 1600's (before the fur trade era) with trade to the Indians and lasted into the 1950's (a hundred years after the so called fur trade). Many of the French trappers (breeds) carried several of these firearms being light and cheap when compared to other guns. Read the history of the east coast and you'll find reference to these NW guns (many called "farm guns" or "squirrel guns" being cheap used for protection or taking care of unwanted animals on their homesteads) some found in estate sales today. HBC and several other firms saw the flintlock era, percussion era and finally the cartridge era before dropping their name markings of old.

So these NW trade guns with this length of production wouldn't count in your fur trade. Are you saying they were for Indian only? Wrong.

Yes I agree this got way off on the sale of this rifle, needs to end.

 

[Marty1]

:cheers:

 

[Buck Conner1]

:cheers:

:bball:  :arrow:   :chatty pete:

 

[Kentucky Colonel]

Smith & Hawken have excellent garden tools that can be referenced back to the early 1830's, great source for the reenactors.

Smith and Hawken went out of business in 2009. Target acquired the branding rights in 2010. 

I am afraid I do not have much trust in Target products as I have encountered failure and stupidity. 
An example? A gardening wearing can that contained harmful materials in it's construction. (I am sorry, 
I do not remember the exact problem, but it was serious and I was stunned they would allow it.)

 

[Buck Conner1]

Smith and Hawken went out of business in 2009. Target acquired the branding rights in 2010. 

Thanks for spooling my day,     I really liked their wares KC.

 

[Kentucky Colonel]

Smith and Hawken went out of business in 2009. Target acquired the branding rights in 2010. 

Thanks for spooling my day,     I really liked their wares KC.

Yeah, I did, too. Sorry.

 

[Buck Conner1]

<h4 class="post-content">Myself and several friends that build websites have been having trouble with our service provider, today was enough, we changed services.</h4><h4 class="post-content">Now the GRRW CA (Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association) will be located at:</h4>

<h4 class="post-content"> [url=http://grrwca.wixsite.com/grrw-ca]http://grrwca.wixsite.com/grrw-ca[/url]</h4>​

As time allows I'll get all pictures converted to 'Photobucket' and then add pages to the new website, thanks for your time.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Conner...........For me and others the fur trade ear along with the MM era was from 1820-1840. With 1840 being the last rendezvous. Silk had taken over beaver hats in Europe and the beavers were becoming trapped put anyway. The American Fur Co. and The Rocky MountainCo were gone by 1841.
Yes, there were some MM who continued to trap on their own, but they were few compared to the peak of the era. I know of clubs who hold BP shoots who set the limit for gear at 1840.

So, when I think of the fur trade era and the mountain man era I think of it as ending in 1840. Just my view.

As for those whining about this conversation? This is the traditional forum. These are the conversations we have here. Maybe someone learned something new by reading this thread. If you don't have any interest in this stuff....why are you reading it? Anybody interested in the gun for sale has all the info they need in the first post.

Cripes! What a bunch of busy bodies!

 

[Buck Conner1]

As for those whining about this conversation? This is the traditional forum. These are the conversations we have here. Maybe someone learned something new by reading this thread. If you don't have any interest in this stuff....why are you reading it?

Anybody interested in the gun for sale has all the info they need in the first post.  

Amen to that old friend. See any bear? This rifle for sale would make someone a damn good gun for those grizzlie suckers or a big mulie.  Thanks Muley.

Like Mike Nesbitt use to say "Shoot Straight".

Buck

 

[Muley Hunter]

I'd love to have one of their guns. It's just way more money than I could ever afford. Beautiful guns.

No bear yet. I knew it would be hard. In the unit Jon is hunting for bear they shot 18 bears last fall. In my unit they shot one bear. Pretty bad odds for over 300 bear hunters.

I'm letting my back heal up. I sort of over did it yesterday. I'll try again tomorrow.

 

[Buck Conner1]

Good Luck.

I use to live 13 miles from Estes Park CO., good old Area <a href='/tags/20' rel='nofollow' title='See all tagged subjects with: #20'>#20</a>. Guess I was very lucky having taken (4) black bears and (1) cinnamon colored  bear in 20 years of hunting that area. Always lots of road hunters.


You need to change your profile picture to this one Muley.

​

 

[Muley Hunter]

I saw no hunters where I went. Which includes elk and deer muzzy hunters. I'm trying a new area tomorrow and i'm sure i'll see some hunters.

I just want to see a bear which I hardly ever see and i'm in the mountains almost every day. Sneaky little guys. I see more cats than bears. Good luck getting that tag.

 

[Buck Conner1]

Tom Watson rifle kit build - Head Up KC ....

Contact your GRRW.CA gunsmith, Carl Walker KC, he's getting close to build your GRRW rifle kit. Need to call him next week.


Buck