Renegade Barrel Length?

[Matthew323]

This is some spitballing I am doing for MtMonkey.

Would someone that owns a Renegade please let me know what the barrel's length would be if it was shortened to a point 1" forward of the first ramrod pipe?

Trying to see if it makes sense to create a substitute for a White Mountain Carbine by modding a Renegade. WMC's are hard to find, and get snapped up quickly when they show up for sale. Very desireable guns.

Plus, Renegade's have a doubleset trigger.

1. Install a Kick-eez Magnum recoil pad to a 13" L.O.P. $125.00
2. Install Rice drop-in, Thompson/Center, percussion breeched barrel, 1" straight octagon × 18"-21" (?), .45 caliber × 1:14" twist, 3/8" front sight dovetail, no sights $475.00.
4. Drill & tap for custom, left offset, Talley scope base by Dove's Custom Guns. Base with integral, flip-up, ghost ring rear sight. Install. Extra screws (8 total). $200.00
5. Talley, Signature Series, 30mm, medium unfinished, Q-D lever, scope rings, pair. $125.00
6. Schmidt & Bender, Zenith, 1.5-6 × 42mm LM riflescope with FD7 illuminated reticle. $2,800.00
7. Copper base with double-taper, brass bead, blade front sight. $100.00
8. GrovTec, #GTSW85, sling swivel set for muzzleloading rifles with 0.500"-0.550' diameter ramrod pipes. $20.00
9. Slogan Ultraflex Rifle Sling. $45.00
10. Hot charcoal blue barrel w/percussion
breech plug, underrib, rib screws (?), ramrod pipe, ramrod pipe screws (2), ramrod retaining springs (2), ramrod retaining spring screws (3), scope base, scope base screws (6), scope rings (2), scope ring screws (6), rear sling swivel wood screw post stud, forward ramrod pipe sling swivel clamp stud, 1" Q-D sling swivels (2) . $200.00
11. Gunn Innovations, Gi ramrod, 21.625" long (WMC length) $28.00
12. SpinJag rotating ramrod tip, .45 caliber. $25.00

Total, less rifle & scope = $1,340.00 + taxes, shipping

I'm sure MtMonkey has scopes on hand that he can install on a modded Renegade, but I threw the Schmidt & Bender in there for the fun of it, because of its incredible light gathering qualities. I'm positive he won't spring for that kind of money.

 

[Tye]

My rice drop in is 32” that’s how it came hope this helps

 

[deermanok]

It was years ago when I had a Renegade. Seems like the barrel wasn't all that long. 26 or 28 inches maybe?

 

[Matthew323]

My rice drop in is 32” that’s how it came hope this helps

Thanks, but what I need to know is the length of the barrel as MEASURED 1" past the first ramrod pipe. That measurement should correspond closely to the 21" length of a White Mountain Carbine barrel.

 

[Tye]

Thanks, but what I need to know is the length of the barrel as MEASURED 1" past the first ramrod pipe. That measurement should correspond closely to the 21" length of a White Mountain Carbine barrel.

I can do that when I get back home

 

[michiganmuzzy]

My .54 Renegade would be 23-1/4" from the front of the snail to 1" past the front pipe.

 

[Fyrstyk]

That seems like an awful lot of money for ashort barreled muzzle loader. I just checked on Gun Brokers, and there a currently 2 White Mountain carbines there.

 

[Matthew323]

My .54 Renegade would be 23-1/4" from the front of the snail to 1" past the front pipe.View attachment 15403

Thanks, that is a little too long for MtMonkey's purposes. If he orders a barrel from Rice, he's going to have to ask Jason to make him a fast twist, .45 caliber, drop-in barrel that is about 18" long × 1" oçtagon.

Either that, or wait & try to score a White Mountain Carbine in .45 caliber (rare), or .50 caliber. Both, if I recall correctly, had 15/16" diameter straight octagon breech sections that dropped down to a straight round fore-barrel out to the muzzle.

The dimensions for the .54 caliber WMC barrel were 1" straight octagon breech, and again if I remember correctly, a 0.840" diameter straight round fore-barrel.

I called Rice, and Jason agreed to replicate a White Mountain Carbine barrel, if he had a sample barrel to work from. Might cost more than the standard $475.00 for a 4140CM steel Thompson/Center drop-in barrel. He said he'd have to see how much extra work it would be over a standard barrel.

A 15/16" straight oçtagon-to-0.7775" (approx.) WMC barrel in .45 caliber would definitely weigh less, and make for a much lighter stalking rifle, which is what MtMonkey needs/wants. He's only going to take shots out to 200-250 yards max, probably much closer where he hunts in Texas.

A scoped 15/16" × 21" long WMC barrel would be exactly what he needs.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I had a .45 WMC and foolishly sold it to pay for another ML that I cant even remember now. Wish i still had it. Sold a Kodiak .45 to pay for the WMC. Another great gun that i wish i still had.

 

[Matthew323]

I had a .45 WMC and foolishly sold it to pay for another ML that I cant even remember now. Wish i still had it. Sold a Kodiak .45 to pay for the WMC. Another great gun that i wish i still had.

Isn't that always the case? I knew in my heart EVERY SINGLE TIME that I sold off a pistol/rifle/shotgun that I had saved up for, that I was making a mistake.

1. Shiloh Sharps, Farmington, 1863, .54 caliber, musket cap percussion rifle
2. Custom, Lancaster-style, Hawken fullstock, flint, .62 caliber longrifle
3. Matching pair of custom walnut flint halfstock Hawken pistols with spur triggerguards & swivel ramrods in .62 caliber


Plus a good half dozen centerfire guns I could mention.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I now think long and hard before selling a gun.(usually dont sell)
Have you looked at the TC Tree Hawk? Already has a 21" barrel, full length round barrel. Didn't come in .45 tho, i think. Ugliest gun ever made imho. But looks like it might fit MtnMonkey's need.

 

[deermanok]

I had a Traditions Buckskinner carbine. 21 inch barrel, stainless with a greenish laminate stock. Sold it last year to a guy who collects carbines. It was a good treestand gun.
Kinda wished I'd kept it but I used the money to buy a couple pistols, CVA mountain pistol and CVA Kentucky pistol.

 

[Matthew323]

I now think long and hard before selling a gun.(usually dont sell)
Have you looked at the TC Tree Hawk? Already has a 21" barrel, full length round barrel. Didn't come in .45 tho, i think. Ugliest gun ever made imho. But looks like it might fit MtnMonkey's need.

The problem with the New Englander, Grey Hawk, Tree Hawk and, I think, several other Thompson/Center rifles, is that the breech diameter is 1" round, not oçtagon. The further one asks Jason, at Rice, to step outside of what he already has programmed in his CNC computer, the more the barrel is going to cost.

Two things.

First, he's NOT set up for round breeches on the drop-in barrels, nor round percussion, snail drum breech plugs with Thompson/Center hooks to fit the Thompson/Center tangs.

Second, is that for MtMonkey's purposes, his best bet is going to be a barrel with a 15/16" diameter straight octagon breech. The ideal setup would be an octagon-round barrel measuring 21" long. The straight octagon breech would measure approximately 11"-12" long and drop immediately down to a straight round fore-barrel measuring approximately 0.770" in diameter. This would be for a 1:14" fast twist, .45 caliber, 4140CM steel, T/C drop-in percussion barrel.

The WMC stock would be the ideal platform for such a build. Because, the wrist is beefier than the one on a Thompson/Center Seneca rifle, which also has a 15/16" barrel channel.

Both the Thompson/Center Hawken & Seneca rifles have that capbox on it, and I'm not sure if you can shorten the stock to 11.625" long without cutting into the capbox. So that the finished L.O.P. will be 13"long with a 1.375" thick, Kick-eez Magnum recoil pad installed on the rifle.

And, since there is always a possibility of a heavier lead conical, or some form of a heavy bullet in a sabot being fired out of the rifle, I have advised him to get the most effective recoil pad installed, instead of one of the standard 1" thick ones.

 

[davek42]

My 2 cents, not my gun or money being spent,
but sounds a lot of money, being waisted.Lots good guns out there for sale if you look.

 

[brad502a]

There was recently on ebay (might still be there) a NIB 22" green mountain LRH in 50.

 

[Matthew323]

For all the naysayers, answer me this?

Where will anyone find a medium-to-high quality, percussion, sidelock, short-barreled, light weight, .45 caliber, 1:14" twist rifle capable of light to medium loads with saboted bullets, bore riders, or lead conicals? With adequate iron sights out to 50 yards, and scoped with Q-D rings, as well? Weighing NO MORE THAN 7.5 pounds, all up.

MtMonkey has quite specific desires in a sidelock, and frankly, those desires simply CANNOT BE MET without spending some decent money. The average Thompson/Center rifle weighs WELL OVER 8 pounds from the factory, and that's in the larger .50 & .54 caliber bores. When you factor in the weight of .45 caliber barrels in 15/16" & 1" oçtagon, the weight of a rifle starts to climb rapidly.

A Thompson/Center Hawken with a 32" long, 15/16" diameter Green Mountain Long Range Hunter drop-in barrel in .45 caliber weighs almost 10 pounds. A Renegade with a Green Mountain, 32" long, 1" diameter, Long Range Hunter drop-in barrel in .45 caliber weighs over 11 pounds.

The 22" long Green Mountain Long Range Hunter drop-in barrels are as rare as hens teeth. I have never seen one in .45 caliber, and even if one could be found, a brand new Rice Fast Twist barrel would be a better bargin. Because, people are asking STUPID MONEY for used Long Range Hunter barrels.

So, for all you dedicated sidelock shooters, and that includes myself, don't judge MtMonkey too harshly. He got his start in muzzleloading with scoped inlines, then progressed to scoped smokeless muzzleloaders, and he wants a percussion sidelock to be short, handy, light, .45 caliber with a 1:14" twist, and to wear both iron sights and a scope.

That's what HE WANTS/NEEDS.

And, who am I, or who are you to judge?

There's room in the sport for all of us!!!!!

 

[Fyrstyk]

A tall order, but deep pockets can solve anything.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

How about a .45 Renegade with a GM LRH barrel, cut back to 18-21" (behind the front pipe) then have the front pipe reinstalled where needed? Youre making me THINK about doing this to mine, & what it would require. It wouldn't have that fast twist but at 1:30" still shoot conicals well to 150+ yds and keep the cost way down by comparison.

 

[deermanok]

Maybe a bit off topic, this is one of my favorite rifles. It's a Traditions Deerhunter in 45 caliber. Not many of them out there I'm sure. 24 inch barrel, weighs a bit over 6 pounds. A handy little gun.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Maybe a bit off topic, this is one of my favorite rifles. It's a Traditions Deerhunter in 45 caliber. Not many of them out there I'm sure. 24 inch barrel, weighs a bit over 6 pounds. A handy little gun.View attachment 15434

Is that a 1:20" twist?