Savage ML10-II cold weather misfires!

[Pocampo]

When subjecting ML to temperature extremes will probably cause condensation each trip in and out of house. Then each time ML is taken back out again any condensed moist. that hadn't evaporated (from outside in)would more than likely refreeze. A repeated cycle of this would probably cause a problem,( frozen pelletized powder).

When brought into the house and left to warm up and come to room temp. the CO2 that is trapped in the powder molecules expands and the vapors off the expanded powder probably help to ignite the charge.

When leaving your ML loaded for an extended time it is far better to leave it in the same temp. where it can adjust SLOWLY as temp changes and not subject it to extreme temp. changes introducing condensation.

I followed these guidelines this year while deer hunting Dec. 2-5. I loaded my 10ML-II @ 4:00 am thur. and shot buck deer @ 9:00 sat. am and NO PROBLEM. I was using AA 5744, 45gr.-Hor 250 xtp, MMP sabot and win. 209 primer. Temp. ranged from a frosty 28 degrees to a mild 48 degrees. The ML was never brought indoors during this time.

I took a SPENT primer and colored it RED to help ID it and use it to help seal breech plug to keep moist out when not hunting afield. I also believe it is better to use a soft gun case to store gun in while hunting as it can more readily adjust to temp. change, and when not subjected to extreme temp, differences will help to wick moist off. always unzip case part way to let air stabilize equally.

Extreme cold temp. causes all metal to shrink to a degree and to an extent even vent liner is reduced by probably.002",as well as CO2/ molecules in powder charge. A combination of extreme temp. change / moisture condensation is the culprit for misfire and can be over ridden to a degree by a hotter primer , like Federal 209A.

For what it's worth this is just my THEORY on the subject. The false (RED) primer I referred to is a good idea and helps to preserve the integrity of powder charge.


Pocampo

 

[Rifleman]

Some good observations!

 

[Anonymous]

Why would you not just discharge it at the end of the day, and forget all the nonsense?

 

[big6x6]

took a SPENT primer and colored it RED to help ID it and use it to help seal breech plug to keep moist out when not hunting afield.

I use a spent primer as well BUT I really like the "coloring it red" part! That way you have quick identification of the spent primer. Good tip!

I also believe it is better to use a soft gun case to store gun in while hunting as it can more readily adjust to temp. change, and when not subjected to extreme temp, differences will help to wick moist off. always unzip case part way to let air stabilize equally.

I always put my rifle in a soft case before any ambient extreme temperature change. As you say that way the temperature change of the gun will be gradual. Another good tip!

 

[eric10ml II]

Randy that would be my preferd method but I think the guys at moose camp would linch me. :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Lynching would be downright rude.

If you are in cold weather, there is far less humidity anyway. Better off leaving your gun in the cold than warming it up.

Smokeless makes its own oxygen; double base powders cannot absorb moisture as easily as single based powders.

 

[Grouse]

I agree with everything you stated. 5744 really shines in these situations. Thanks for all the info.

 

[Rifleman]

Actually there have been some reports of Retumbo failures to fire in Mogadishu. :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Latitude-sensitive 5744 does not work in Australia; the sabot spins backwards. :shock:

Nasty stuff.

 

[Bwana]

Cold

For us hunters in Canada where it gets very cold,your observations are very interesting!!Thanks!!

 

[Mountain Man]

I also believe it is better to use a soft gun case to store gun in while hunting as it can more readily adjust to temp. change, and when not subjected to extreme temp, differences will help to wick moist off. always unzip case part way to let air stabilize equally.

I always put my rifle in a soft case before any ambient extreme temperature change. As you say that way the temperature change of the gun will be gradual. Another good tip!

Why not a hard gun case? The "egg crate" foam will mold around the gun and greatly reduce air flow. Since air is what carries moisture to the cold metal, where it will condense, you should have relatively little condensation.

Condensation will only occur where warm, moist air contacts a cold surface. So, putting a piece of tape over the muzzle and a spent primer in the breech plug, both placed there while outside in cold, dry air should keep virtually all moisture out of the powder. There may be some air inside the barrel, but as the barrel adjusts to inside temps, there will be no condensation inside the barrel, since (a) if anything, the barrel walls are warmer than the air they contain, and (b) as the air warms up, the saturation level wil be reduced.

If you do seal the breech and muzzle, then the danger of condensation would be greatest when you take the rifle back out into the cold. Then, the barrel will be cooled quickly, and until the cold barrel cools the warm air inside it, you have warm air inside the barrel contacting the cold metal of the barrel.

So, if your going to move a loaded gun back and forth between the inside and outside, the best protection should be to (1) load the gun outside in a cold, relatively dry location, (2) when the gun is cold and dry, place a piece of tape over the muzzle and keep a primer, spent or unfired, in the breech plug, (3) put the gun in some type of case when you come inside, (4) remove the tape from the muzzle as soon as you leave the warm house and get into the cold, relatively dry environment, and (5) replace the tape once the gun has fully adjusted to the cold.