The Fred Barnes Original .458 300 gr. Semi-Spitzer

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The Fred Barnes Original .458 300 gr. Semi-Spitzer for Muzzleloading

I first learned of the Fred Barnes bullets through P. O. Ackey?s ?Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders,? Copyright 1962?by now, in its twenty-third or twenty-fourth printing. Custom bullet maker Fred Barnes is cited in the chapter on Killing Power, with the comment that ?Barnes bullets usually give more penetration than most other jacketed jacketed bullets of the same diameter, weight, and striking velocity.? It has been a long time since Fred Barnes started his bullet company back in 1932, but his original bullets are still being made by the company that bears his name today.

Now that Del Ramsey has current formulation (orange) .458 / .50 sabots readily available resplendent with the stepped base that appears to be stronger than most concave base style sabots, the viability of exploring the possibilities of shooting .458 45-70 bullets has never been better. Of all .45 caliber 300 grain bullets made today, the one that has the highest real-world ballistic coefficient that I have been able to shoot with great accuracy is the Barnes Original #457010 Semi-Spitzer with a published BC of .291. I believe its real-world 200 yard BC is actually higher. The very highest true BC 300 gr. class bullet on the market is the far newer, Barnes .458 ?X? all copper bullet, stated BC of .340. I?ve not been able to get the same tack-driving accuracy out of this 300 gr. X bullet in muzzleloaders as I have with the Barnes Original Semi-Spitzer or the Barnes 300 gr. MZ-Expanders, so those are off the table for me for that simple reason.

Though the BC of bullets has been used, abused, inflated, and prostituted beyond belief over the years?a bullet that flies flatter does indeed give you a lot of things for free. Less drop for free, less wind drift for free, more striking energy on target for free. Though a high-BC bullet is completely worthless to me if it cannot be shot with great accuracy, the 300 gr. Barnes Original has accounted for enough 5-shot, 100 yard, sub ? inch muzzleloading groups to pique my interest.

I can?t say that the Barnes Original is as good as a terminal performer as the MZ-Expander, so I won?t. Nothing else I?ve found is, out of a muzzleloader. However, I believe it is a lot better than most people think, and perhaps even better than the Barnes Bullet Company believes.

The following picture shows an unfired .458 Barnes Original, the proper MMP sabot along with one I recovered at about 130 yards out of the dirt, displayed here viewed from the bottom. Expansion exceeds 225%.

barneso.jpg


The weight retention of this recovered bullet is an amazing 95%, as you can see:

barneso2.jpg


In no way can I represent that this is exactly what will result from firing on living tissue with circulation; I don?t believe there really is any substitute for the genuine article from any source. Killing dirt, wet newspaper, or even ballistic gelatin only tells us how well a bullet kills these substrates, not what performance on game is. In the case of ballistic gelatin, the lack of bones makes it obvious that it is inherently flawed when used as a direct indicator of terminal performance on game.

Even though the more conventional design of this bullet does not allow for the 100% weight retention of a Barnes MZ-Expander, and core separation could be a possibility, the astounding accuracy of this bullet and its superb flight characteristics make it the bullet that is coming out of my muzzle on the next hunt. I?m not aware of any significant body of data concerning the muzzleloading use of this bullet, so it looks like I?ll just have to find out for myself. That?s just part of the hellishness that is my life.

Added to the uncertainty is the slight design change that Barnes has implemented to this bullet compared to its original form. Early Barnes bullets had a jacket thickness exceeding .040 in. Currently, this pure copper and pure lead bullet has a .032 in. thick jacket?still substantial, still tougher than most bullets, but the reduction in jacket thickness was made to allow for more expansion.

The nose of this bullet is pure lead, so you will want to use a ramrod tip that fits the ogive, being careful not to mash and smash the nose during seating with a blunt tip. Assuming a 2100 fps muzzle velocity, this bullet has a 6? kill MPBR of over 200 yards, retaining over 1600 fps velocity and 1700 fpe at 200 yards. Maybe now you can see why this, coupled with its great accuracy, has me excited about this bullet?
 
It's my new bullet too, my initial testing has showed " best accuracy" with my HB and with more then one powder.
 
Excellent review Randy!

I have been shootin the 300 Barnes MZ Expanders. They shoot well and seem to kill well based on one TN Hog shot. My experience with this bullet is limited but darn good. You put me on to them anyway so why should I expect any different! :lol:

In comparison to the .458 300 Grain Semi-Spitzers w/buying the Orange MMP Sabots is there a measurable cost savings with the 300 grain semi-spitzers VS the 300 MZ Expanders?

Also, do you think the fps would be a little less with them since the Barnes Semi-Spitzer is lead vs the solid copper Barnes MZ assuming same powder charge? Think I read somewhere with lead there is a compression factor that absorbs some energy thus reducing fps somewhat.

Final question, what loading tip do you suggest for the .458 300 grain semi-spitzers?

Thanks.
 
Loggy said:
Excellent review Randy!

I have been shootin the 300 Barnes MZ Expanders. They shoot well and seem to kill well based on one TN Hog shot. My experience with this bullet is limited but darn good. You put me on to them anyway so why should I expect any different! :lol:

In comparison to the .458 300 Grain Semi-Spitzers w/buying the Orange MMP Sabots is there a measurable cost savings with the 300 grain semi-spitzers VS the 300 MZ Expanders?

Also, do you think the fps would be a little less with them since the Barnes Semi-Spitzer is lead vs the solid copper Barnes MZ assuming same powder charge? Think I read somewhere with lead there is a compression factor that absorbs some energy thus reducing fps somewhat.

Final question, what loading tip do you suggest for the .458 300 grain semi-spitzers?

Thanks.

Yes, the Barnes Originals are less costly, at Midway USA:

Barnes Original Bullets 45-70 Government (458 Diameter) 300 Grain Semi-Spitzer Box of 50
Product #: 635838
Status: Available Only 3 Available!
Our Price: $22.99

The velocities, MZ-Expander vs. 458 Barnes Original, are virtually identical.

My favorite load with them is 60 gr. of N120, but 45 gr. 5744 seems to group the same. Reloder 7, AA2015, 5744, N120-- this bullet does not seem to care.

I believe the MZ-Expander is actually the better bullet-- but, the Barnes Original is just as accurate, and flies noticeably better.
 
It shoots real well with H322 too.

Rman,
Can you tell me what load you used for the H322?Thanks! :D

RW,

What ramrod tip do you use to keep from deforming the lead tip of this Barnes original bullet. Will the TC shockwave tip work or did you use a differant one? Thanks! :D
 
CORVAIR said:
It shoots real well with H322 too.

RW,

What ramrod tip do you use to keep from deforming the lead tip of this Barnes original bullet. Will the TC shockwave tip work or did you use a differant one? Thanks! :D

The Shockwave tip is what I use! :)
 
That's probably another bullet I can't get up here :cry:
 
What the chart should demonstrate is that there is seldom any reason to use less than a 150 yard zero-- or a 175 yd. zero with this bullet. :shock:
 
Thanks for the Original & MZ comparison Randy.

I may get a box or 2 if I ever can find some of the Barnes Originals. I saw Midway is sold out & about 2 weeks ago I called Barnes & they said sometime in January 2006.

Anyone know of any changes on availablity?
 
Thanks Randy. Likely a major miss of market share gain by Barnes with some other significant ML Bullet offerings soon to be readily available.

Like they say, its all about be at the right place at the right time. I think January 2006 or later when Barnes projects start of crankin Originals may be a lil too late. Time will tell for sure. :D
 
Oh, I wouldn't accuse Barnes of intentionally losing sales. :wink:

They felt they "had" a 3 year supply in April, and there just hasn't been great demand for them until recently.

It goes back to the notion (or fact) that most muzzleloading hunters do not shoot very much at all. That's the basis for the dual duty / triple duty bullets that you see, such as SST's and Winchester Platinum Tips loaded in slug rounds. Even Barnes Expanders are sold in various ways; cut a cannelure around it and you have the XPB line.

It's also the reason that Speer, Swift, and Sierra have mostly ignored the muzzleloading market-- the numbers are comparatively small. None of these companies are truly adverse to selling bullets.
 

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