Well, IS a black powder substitute gun worth it? :?:

[big6x6]

:?:

Hmmmm. Well, I for one feel it IS!

Let's take my Knight Disc Elite .50 for example. What DOES it give up to smokeless? Well, to top it off, it is STILL the most accurate muzzleloader I have EVER owned! Is it STILL the most forgiving muzzleloader I have ever owned shooting a variety of loads very well. It is STILL the only muzzleloader I've ever owned that has taken two big game animals with two consecutive shots at 196 AND 208yds! It's light and shoulders/points instinctively. It offers 100% ignition as well!

And the ONLY negative is a little Butchs Muzzleloading Bore Shine? I don't see that much of an issue,

 

[Loggy]

Nice shootin Chuck!

I fully agree...thats why I own both. I have less disagreements with myself that way! :lol:

 

[so40]

Nice post Chuck. I have to agree with you. The Elite is a fine gun. It may not be smokeless and requires a little more care...BUT... it is a fine weapon and it does "feel" very good.

Mike

 

[Admin]

Knight Disc Extreme .50

Still my favorite rifle. It's a solid workhorse. I wish Knight had made the Elite in a thumbhole configuration. I would have been more inclined to get one.

 

[so40]

From Pat:

"I wish Knight had made the Elite in a thumbhole configuration. I would have been more inclined to get one."

YES. I have 2 of them, one blue and one SS. I am going to find one for the SS Elite if it kills me. I have emailed Knight to see if they would prepare one (modify or mill an extreme stock) and if so how much. I haven't heard back from them at this time. My Disc Extreme 45 (thumbhole) is the best feeling rifle I own.

Mike

 

[Grouse]

:lol: :lol: Hey 6x6, The Elite is accurate no doubt. Buy yourself an Encore, and the Elite will collect dust. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Let's take my Knight Disc Elite .50 for example. What DOES it give up to smokeless?

Being in production. :shock:

 

[Grouse]

To be fair Chuck. There are alot of differences between my Knight and Savage. You just have had no LUCK at all with Smokeless Muzzleloaders. You will soon find out the advantages you have with Smokeless. Have you shot your HB since you got it back? 260 DeadCenters and 300grn XTP'S with 42grns of 5744 will shoot with my Disc Elite no problem. I think between your new Rifle, and your Savage. Your thoughts are going to change. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Well, IS a black powder substitute gun worth it? :?:


As far as I'm concerned-- smokeless powder always was, and is a blackpowder substitute. Whether 3 drams equivalent shotshells, or .45-70 Government cartridges . . . that's all it is.

Dumb old saboted bullet moves due to expanding gas, and it does not care what produces that gas. Gas is gas. The distinction between gluconic acid, solid fuel pellets, and a powder like 5744 is more mythical than reality. 5744 is a far older, more traditional propellant than gluconic acid that has was not available until 2002. And, far more proven.

Whatever gun preference you have is just that. For some reason, people seen to forget that a Savage 10ML-II functions the same way with Pyrodex pellets as it does with 5744. It's just that the glory of spit-patching and immediate cleaning eludes most people. :shock:

 

[big6x6]

Dumb old saboted bullet moves due to expanding gas, and it does not care what produces that gas. Gas is gas.

Dumb 'ol guns by Knight , Thompson/Center, and Austin & Halleck DO care what produces that gas however.

For some reason, people seen to forget that a Savage 10ML-II functions the same way with Pyrodex pellets as it does with 5744.

I for one, wouldn't want to be the one to have to CLEAN it though!

Have you shot your HB since you got it back?

Not yet. I plan to SOON, though!

 

[omega]

Well, IS a black powder substitute gun worth it? :?:


As far as I'm concerned-- smokeless powder always was, and is a blackpowder substitute. Whether 3 drams equivalent shotshells, or .45-70 Government cartridges . . . that's all it is.

I don't think many people agree with you on this. To jump from a "smoky" powder to smokeless is a too big of a genre change for many. Nevermind that there is no real world differences it's perception and we all know how big of roll that plays in life.

5744 is a far older, more traditional propellant

In a smokeless gun, yes.

the same way with Pyrodex pellets

But would it have ever sold as Pyrodex burner? I don't know it is certainly a good question. Today when we all have such specialized guns that fit into narrow little niches how many would have bought another P burner? I suspect that the Savage sales are overwhelmingly based on people wanting the fastest magnum ML out there. And that crown falls to the ML10.

 

[Anonymous]

Dumb 'ol guns by Knight , Thompson/Center, and Austin & Halleck DO care what produces that gas however.
I for one, wouldn't want to be the one to have to CLEAN it though!

Do they, really? :?

Nobody wants to be forced to immediately clean their gun-- and that is why the Savage's sales continue to climb more than any other factor.

 

[Anonymous]

1) Smokeless powder as a blackpowder substitute is a matter of historical record, not subject to personal revision.

2) The date of birth of 5744, N110, SR4759 is also a matter of fact-- and newbies like Triple 7 will just have to live with it.

3) The Savage is far from the "fastest" muzzleloader made, but-- muzzle velocity alone has nothing to do with a gun's effectiveness and clearly not with its quality or accuracy.

 

[big6x6]

Whatever gun preference you have is just that. For some reason, people seen to forget that a Savage 10ML-II functions the same way with Pyrodex pellets

I for one would not want to clean it though!

Do they, really?

Duh...Yes..Proper propellants are listed in owners manual.

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe the distinguished drug professional from Alabama needs to try a NULA?