Last week I got to the task of making some test bullets for my Tikka T3, 300 WSM. I referred to my reloading manual, Lymans 48th Edition and they recommend loads from 59 - 65-5 grains of powder. I should say that I've decided to go with IMR 4350 and 165 grain Hornady interbond bullets set off by Win Large Rifle magnum primers. I loaded 5 @ 59, 5 @ 60 and so on to 65.5 grains. In other words, I went up in 1 grain increments except the last one where I went up .5. When I narrow it down, I'll make some more in .2 grain increments. Where do think I'll get the best preformance. Keep in mind that I won't have any results for awhile since the range is in no shape to go to right now.
What's your best guess?
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Really no way of knowing. I wouldn't have loaded five of each load during load development though, I would have just loaded three. One reason is barrel heat and the other is if the rifle won't put 3 of a particular load into one hole, it certainly won't put 5.
While I like your choice of IMR-4350 I'd ALSO try one with a notch slower burn rate such as AA-3100, H4831SC, RL-22, or IMR-7828.
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IMR-4350 is one of my favorite powders. It is so versatile over a wide spectrum of calibers and cartridges. I have a notion that you will find that the "sweet" is going to be in the 64.5 - 65.5 grain range. In my vast experience with magnum case reloading, the sweet spot has always been just a half grain to one full grain below max load. That max load, is not the one listed in the reloading manuals, but the max load the pressure signs are telling me is the max load.
I would aslo take a look at other powders like IMR-4831, Accurate 3100, Accurate MagPro, Reloader 19, Reloader 22, and maybe even Hodgdon H4350 and/or H4831.
6x6 is correct in starting with 3 shot groups for load developement, in that if it will not group 3 shots, then it will not group 5. You can evaluate the 3 shot groups and return to the range with any loads that show potetnial to shot 5 shot groups, if you wish.
Since you are talking about a hunting rifle here, allow a few minutes between shots, the barrel doesn't have to cold for each shot, but you don't want to get hot by the end of the shot string, either.
I would aslo take a look at other powders like IMR-4831, Accurate 3100, Accurate MagPro, Reloader 19, Reloader 22, and maybe even Hodgdon H4350 and/or H4831.
6x6 is correct in starting with 3 shot groups for load developement, in that if it will not group 3 shots, then it will not group 5. You can evaluate the 3 shot groups and return to the range with any loads that show potetnial to shot 5 shot groups, if you wish.
Since you are talking about a hunting rifle here, allow a few minutes between shots, the barrel doesn't have to cold for each shot, but you don't want to get hot by the end of the shot string, either.
Thanks for the replys this morning. My thoughts on load 5 were simple. It allow 1 or 2 shots of shooter error, me. Even if all 5 are good shots on my part it gives me a better idea how the rifle is grouping with a particular load
My reason for choosing 4350 are basicly 2 fold. #1, manual recommended it as their best grouping load and #2 is the fact I use it in other loads. Just means less powder to store. We'll see how it works out.
Now have a chrony so I'll be able to see how they preform too.
My reason for choosing 4350 are basicly 2 fold. #1, manual recommended it as their best grouping load and #2 is the fact I use it in other loads. Just means less powder to store. We'll see how it works out.
Now have a chrony so I'll be able to see how they preform too.
Shot my test loads today and have mixed emotions. First off the best load was 64 grains, 1 1/2 off the max listed for my manual. However it wasn't a great group. Velocity was also less than I expected. The factory rounds were consistently over 3200 FPS with the max at 3230. The best these hand loads would do was just over 3000 and that was with the max load of 65.5. Oh well, back to the drawing board.
Sometimes that just the way it goes. While I am certain the Hornady Interbond is a fine bullet and very accurate for most, I have found that generally out to 300yds or so that a FLAT-BASE bullet is generally more accurate. Also, MOST rifles will prefer either a boat-tail or a flat base so what I almost ALWAYS do is pick the WEIGHT I want to shoot then try both a flat-base and a boat-tail with each charge weight. BUT when I don't want to go to all THAT trouble I pick a flat base every time to try first, either a Sierra ProHunter or a Speer Hot-Core spitzer.
If you want to stick with the 165gr Interbonds, the only other considerations at this point are powder and primers with primers being the LAST item I ever consider. I'd go the route of one notch slower powder and since you all ready have IMR-4350 the natural progression is IMR-4831 with I think would be even a better choice than 4350.
I'd probably go for the most accurate load over 3100fps..you should be able to get there with 4831.
You could also try H4350 which is a tad slower than the IMR version before you drop down in buring rate to 4831.
I often use the Hornady Spire Point as a test bullet to work with a cartridge, and they shoot well for me. They are cheap and cheerful as it were.
jim
I often use the Hornady Spire Point as a test bullet to work with a cartridge, and they shoot well for me. They are cheap and cheerful as it were.
jim
RAF said:Thanks for that. Someone at the range also suggested Reloader 19 I believe. Haven't had much time to follow that up. Been too busy around the house with painting.
Well that is probably a good one TOO! There are a LOT of good powders out there!
RL-19 really falls BETWEEN IMR-4350 and IMR-4831 in usage/burn rate and would have been a great one to START with(so was IMR-4350) but now it is my opinion that the natural progression would be to IMR-4831 which is certainly no where near TOO slow for your application.HunterJim. It's interesting that you mention H4350. My manual says they got their best results with that. I only chose IMR because I already use it in a 243. Looks like I'll be buying a variety of powder. Oh well, I have all summer to get this sorted out before the hunting season.
You know this is getting expensive :shock: Could have bought 5 boxes of the Fusion ammo and been set for years, but where's the fun in that :wink: .
You know this is getting expensive :shock: Could have bought 5 boxes of the Fusion ammo and been set for years, but where's the fun in that :wink: .
RAF,
I just got a copy of the new Norma reloading manual (just = Friday).
Their burning rate table looks like this fast to slow order:
<snip>
H380
H414
N160
IMR 4350
R904
H4350
IMR 4831
A3100
Re 19
R905
XMR4350
N560
Re 22
<snip>
jim
I just got a copy of the new Norma reloading manual (just = Friday).
Their burning rate table looks like this fast to slow order:
<snip>
H380
H414
N160
IMR 4350
R904
H4350
IMR 4831
A3100
Re 19
R905
XMR4350
N560
Re 22
<snip>
jim
I have to correct my last post. It wasn't H4350. It was XRM 4350. Don't know what that is. According to the chart you posted, it's even slower that H4350 and a long way from IMR 4350.
This afternoon I went looking for some different powder and finally found some. Have two choices in mind and decided to give 4831 a try. Only concern is the max load in my manual is a compressed load. Not sure if I like that.
This afternoon I went looking for some different powder and finally found some. Have two choices in mind and decided to give 4831 a try. Only concern is the max load in my manual is a compressed load. Not sure if I like that.
RAF,
Compressed loads with stick powders are not bad per se. There is a lot of space left between the grains to absorb the initial powder gases on ignition. There aren't in spherical powders, so compressing them is not cool.
XMR 4350 is from Accurate.
jim
Compressed loads with stick powders are not bad per se. There is a lot of space left between the grains to absorb the initial powder gases on ignition. There aren't in spherical powders, so compressing them is not cool.
XMR 4350 is from Accurate.
jim
A-4350=AA-4350=XMR-4350 Accurate Arms
That powderburn rate chart from Norma is one screwed up chart. No other chart I have EVER seen puts powders in the order they have listed and it certainly does not mirror my experience. AA-4350 is practically interchangeable with IMR-4350, both somewhat FASTER burning than H4350. Certainly Accurate Arms(now Western Powders) knows the burn rate of their OWN powders and in no way is AA-3100 FASTER burning than AA-4350 as listed on that CHART! That chart is a joke.
Here's the best burn rate chart I have found:
http://www.ramshot.com/powders/
I LIKE somewhat compressed loads and there is certainly nothing wrong or dangerous with that(up to a POINT of course). Most if not ALL of the "high-energy" loads from various companies is COMPRESSED. In fact SO comressed that you can pull the bullet and pour out the powder. In MOST cases you'll NEVER be able to get all the powder back in the CASE! Try shaking those factory .300 WSM cartridges. I'm betting the powder is compressed. When searching for the HIGHEST velocity at the LOWEST pressure, your load is almost ALWAYS going to have to be somewhat compressed.
My only concern with compressed loads is that IMO I'll have to crimp the bullet. I don't usually crimp my bullets unless it's for an auto loader or a leaver action with a tubular magazine. I don't like using the crimping feature of the seating die. Tried that once and made a mess of it. I have some Lee crimping dies and looks like I'll have to try and find one for the 300WSM.
You won't have to. When they say "compressed" it's usually hardly compressed at all. Only with a compressed ball powder is this usually ever problem. Depending on which 4831 get, it may or may not even be a compressed load. IMR-4831 68.0gr(Sierra list 68.7gr as max) is not a compressed load, Nosler list it at 92% case capacity.
My manual is the Lyman 48th Edition. The powder I bought to try is IMR 4831. Manual says the max load is 72 grains. Think that might fill er up :wink: . I did manage to fine a crimping die for the 300, so if I need it, I got it. You can never have too many tool :wink:
