Frustrating Knight

[Nannyhammer]

All, This a copy of the email I sent Knight. It's been a week and no response so I figured I would ask here. Would appreciate comments from any of you that have dealt with a finicky Knight. Looking for a load that will 1.5" at 100yds. I figure that should equate to .5" to 3/4" at 50yds. Also my backyard range is only 50yds so that is why the groups were shot at that distance.

Dear Knight,
For years I wanted a Knight rifle and in 2010 I picked up an original DISC rifle from my nephew. Unfortunately once I got it in hand the barrel had not been taken care of. Not to be deterred I picked up a replacement barrel from the factory but had to settle for a 26” DISC Extreme barrel. Frankly I've never been more frustrated with trying to achieve accuracy with a muzzle loader and I've been shooting them since the early 1980's. In the last six years I have tried all the loads listed below with 80, 90 or 100 grains of Triple 7. To date the best accuracy I’ve gotten is 1.2” at 50 yards which should translate into a 2.5-3.0” group at 100 yards. The most accurate load that I have found has a combined bullet/sabot diameter of .506 which means it’s not very easy to load especially if the barrel has any fouling to speak of. Is this the best I’ll ever be able to see accuracy wise out of this barrel? Also I’m not looking for a 150 grain loads since at most I’ll shoot 150-175 yards. These groups were shot using three different scopes over the years to rule out the optics and with both a front/rear bag off of a bench. Recently I also made sure that the barrel was free floated since the 26” barrel was a larger than the original one. Bear in mind I also have $119 CVA wolf that will consistently shoot three shots inside ¾”-1" at 50 yards so I think I’m certainly capable. Appreciate any inputs you wish to provide.

.44 240 grain Hornady XTP Bullets with MMP green sabot
.44 240 grain Hornady XTP Bullets with green crush rib sabot
.44 Home cast 265 grain WFN bullet with MMP green sabot
.44 Home cast 265 grain WFN bullet with green crush rib sabot
.458 Remington SJHP with Orange MMP sabot
.458 Remington SJHP with Orange MMP sabot and ballistic sub base
.452 250 T/C Magnum with black sabot
.452 250 T/C Magnum with black sabot and ballistic sub base
.458 Home cast bullet with Orange MMP sabot
.458 Home cast bullet with Orange MMP sabot and ballistic sub base

 

[GoexBlackhorn]

My sweet-spot when using 777 for many years was either 105 or 110gr. I also found Harvester short or Harvester crush rib sabots would perform better than MMP (overall), when shooting XTPs. My best success using MMP sabots was when I tried their three-petal EZ's. But I doubt they are made to support 44-cal bullets.
http://mmpsabots.com/store/black-3petal-ez/

 

[bestill]

Well hope knight helps you out but i have never seen a disc extreme that wouldnt shoot much better than that.

Basic questions
Is action to stock bolt snug?
When tightening bolt is stock flexing against barrel?
Is flash hole in breech plug over.040 ?
How much leakage do you have around primer and disc?
Is scope mount solid and how tall is rings?

Loads me personally would not classify any of those bullet/sabot combos as accurate.

Have you tried like a hornady sst in a snug fitting sabot or Barnes tez or bloodline.

 

[ohiostate]

did you try i different powder?? try BH 209.. my 52 cal shoots right at 1inch at 100 yards.. are you loading it the same way every time?? WORM

 

[Nannyhammer]

Thanks for the responses.

Is action to stock bolt snug? Bolt is snug but not overly tight

When tightening bolt is stock flexing against barrel? Not sure I understand this question but with bolt tightened and ramrod inserted you can slide an index card between barrel and stock from fore end to bedding block

Is flash hole in breech plug over.040 ? Not sure on this one

How much leakage do you have around primer and disc? Almost no leakage around disc, zero leakage between primer and disc

Is scope mount solid and how tall is rings? Have used three different scopes and two different mounts. Rings are low height and base has been checked/removed and loctited.

Have you tried like a hornady sst in a snug fitting sabot or Barnes tez or bloodline. Haven't tried these since I'm doing my best to work up a load that I can shoot more often since we have early/late MZ season and military base that lets you use MZ for all of gun season (roughly three weeks).

did you try i different powder?? I personally don't think I've seen BH 209 in central Arkansas, may need to keep my eyesI peeled.

are you loading it the same way every time?? I strive to load exactly the same every time. I have tried swabbing between each shot, every other shot, or every third shot. Have also tried swabbing with dry patch, spit patch and Windex damp patch. Also I place the butt of the gun on my foot when seating bullets to try and keep similar pressure.

Sometimes it will shoot two bullets out of three close other times they hit in patterns not groups. Good example, shot .458 300 grain HP and orange sabots into 1.2", next time out same load, same weather went over 5" for three shots. Absolutely no consistency.

 

[a1smokepole]

To me it sounds like a stock fit to barrel or action is moving and not staying true. you say every time you go shoot its not the same have you removed the barrel from the stock every time you have gone shooting. if so get some electrical tape take the tape and wrap it around the barrel at the end of the stock just so you take up the room between the barrel and the stock go shoot it and get back with us.

 

[Nannyhammer]

a1smokepole,

Yes I normally remove it from the stock for cleaning because I hate a dirty gun. But I'll leave it put if that makes it shoot like it did with it's original barrel. So basically you are saying to remove barrel from stock and wrap electrical tape around the barrel to create upward pressure at stock tip. After tape is installed shoot it, clean then shoot it again to see if it groups/shifts. I'll try and mess with it this weekend if I get a chance.

 

[cljohnson24]

1-Torque the action bolt 35-40 inch pounds with the butt on the ground while you squeeze the barrel against forearm channel to force it being centered.
2-Loads- as said by bestill, none of those jump out as being accuracy loads. Try a .452 XTP 250/or 300 in Harvester Red Crush Rib or Knight Black Sabot over 90-110 grns of 777 or BH209. Start at 90 and see if it improves or worsens at 100gr etc.
3-Position front bag rearward under the center of checkering to ensure sling stud isn't recoiling against bag(also minimzes chances for barrel-forearm contact)and pay attention to rear sling stud on rear bag as well.

Not trying to be a know it all but these are the things that helped me one time.

 

[a1smokepole]

a1smokepole,

Yes I normally remove it from the stock for cleaning because I hate a dirty gun. But I'll leave it put if that makes it shoot like it did with it's original barrel. So basically you are saying to remove barrel from stock and wrap electrical tape around the barrel to create upward pressure at stock tip. After tape is installed shoot it, clean then shoot it again to see if it groups/shifts. I'll try and mess with it this weekend if I get a chance.

you don't want upward pressure you want to just take up the room between stock and barrel and the sides to help hold it in place that's all. go shoot it just like any range trip go home but live barrel in stock clean the go back on your next trip and see if it shoots the same or very close. don't change anything but clean and shoot. if this helps you need to bed the action and lug.

 

[Nannyhammer]

Gents, thanks for the inputs, I'll give them a try.